Southern California Club Xterra
Southern California Club Xterra => SCCX General Discussion => Topic started by: JeffBett on February 03, 2016, 11:27:23 AM
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I am kind of surprised how little I can find on the subject but I am curious about all the options for carrying 5 or 10 gallons of extra gas. I am sticking with stock rear bumper and of course want to avoid anything inside so that only leaves the roof. I know the Rotopax options as I would want something more low profile the standing up Jerry Cans or taller plastic can. I would probably want to siphon to the tank rather then unstrap, etc. At one of the meet ups someone mentioned an option that was pretty low profile and they were selling it as an oil can but I did not get enough info to find it. I wondered if anyone knows someone using the flatter marine/boat tanks. Perfect seals are important as I would think a gas shower is not good.
Also, I only have the stock roof rack, and if I put something on the roof, what do people use to protect the roof from scratches, etc. I need to nail this down for everything like firewood and storage bins as well.
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I store 2 3-gallon Rotopax on my Hep's Designs roof basket. I know you said you just have the stock roof rack with no basket, but a basket will help a lot and you won't have to worry about protecting the roof. If you don't want a basket, you can lay a tarp or towels down underneath whatever you put on the roof. You can also get the Raingler roof net, but I heard it sags a little under load. I can't speak for siphoning because I just remove my cans when I need to re-fuel. Also, I'm not 100% sure how you secure a can to the stock bars. I'm sure you could strap it, and I'm sure there's something out there that can attach to the roof rails themselves but I've never researched it.
My setup:
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Raingler Net:
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X2 or is it 3.....
If you want low profile with the OE setup, the RotoPax systems is top tier.
The reason there isn't much info out there is simply because there aren't many options. This goes for all vehicles and not just the Xterra. With out an OE outboard spare tire (and carrier) to work with, it's tough to make something work.
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BRR (before roof rack) I used a 4 gallon Rotopax on the roof, cinched down with bungees and a beach towel underneath. Simple, but effective.
With a siphon system, my concern would be leaks etc., but you're on the right track with roof stored fuel in a Rotopax.
Sent from Cygnus X-1
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X however many for rotopax. I carry 2, 4 gallon rotopax on the roof. Rotopax does have a gas nozzle with a short(5ft) hose for filling vehicles, I bought one a few years back but have yet to actually try it out. You would need to unscrew the cap to attach the hose so the rotopax would have to be upright, meaning it would need to be unstrapped, so kinda defeats the purpose.
Sent from my rooftop tent while stargazing
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I will at times put two of the fuel cans side by side along the rear crossbar on the rack. I have a couple pieces of 6" fire hose I lay down between the cans and the roof then ratchet strap them side by side without any difficulties. That setup has held up during a lot of wheeling without issues and super easy to siphon if necessary. They are the shorter but wider 5 gallon fuel tanks so they have a lower profile and are wider which helps to stabilize them. I also have but not installed yet a Dep Hep rack with an aftermarket custom dual top fuel rack for those cans which will hold them very securely.
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I carry two 5 gallon metal gas cans in my rear storage (inside vehicle). Mounted and strapped down. Kept inside months at a time until swapped out for fresh fuel. Have never smelled gas or had any negative effects.
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If the rotopax doesn't work for you for some odd reasoning, I used a Front Runner Dual Jerry Can mounted to a simple bracket utilizing the mounting holes of the roof basket tie down points. Yes, it makes the rig taller, but for long trips I need the extra two cans + the two cans on the rear bumper.
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee94/synikalsoysauce/_DSC0264e_zpsdwoks6eq.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/synikalsoysauce/media/_DSC0264e_zpsdwoks6eq.jpg.html)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee94/synikalsoysauce/_DSC0254e_zpsgeootrit.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/user/synikalsoysauce/media/_DSC0254e_zpsgeootrit.jpg.html)
Like was mentioned before, your best bet would be to Rotopax it to your roof using a basket mounted to your roof bars.
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It's not that Rotopax would not work, I just really wanted to know what other choices there was, especially if there were ways that were not so damn expensive. To carry 10 gal. In Rotopax means I need a second mortgage.
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That's one of the reasons I have not gone with Rotopax over the years. They are nice but seem to be very expensive and haul less fuel. I know a lot of guys really like them but I'm still very happy with my steel Jerry cans.
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A 2nd for the inside the truck carry method if without a roof rack or bumper spot for it. Some (speaking on the general mind) wouldn't advise it because of possible leaking fuel and whatnot, but if you check the seals on the can and make sure they're airtight, and if you let any excess spilled fuel dry out before placing them inside, they'll be fine for a weekend trip for sure.
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Rotopax are good if you need to mount them funny - in a funny position, a funny location, etc. Otherwise, your best bet is a good 'ol 5 gallon Jerry Can. I was running two of the same 5 gallon cans as Celt (the shorter, fatter style jerry cans) and loved them. They work well with a factory roof rack.
With my aftermarket rack, I have two 2 gallon Rotopax cans mounted to the front where the basket drops down. Nice thing about them is that they lay flat and don't stick up above the side rails of the rack. The bad thing about them is that they cost a fortune, they only hold 4 gallons, and they don't stand up on their own to be filled. Drives me nuts! On longer trips (Mojave Road, Death Valley, etc), I still have to bring one of my 5 gallon cans.
Those 5 gallon cans are sold at ORW. They call them "used oil cans," because they don't have the stupid EPA nozzles required to be gas cans. That makes them even better. :) I think I paid about $80 for the two of them together. Worth every penny.
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funny thing is new good quality NATO jerry cans are around the same price as rotopax 4 gallon, yes they carry 20L or 5.2Gals but I was wondering where everyone was getting the good quality cans from for cheap.
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A 2nd for the inside the truck carry method if without a roof rack or bumper spot for it. Some (speaking on the general mind) wouldn't advise it because of possible leaking fuel and whatnot, but if you check the seals on the can and make sure they're airtight, and if you let any excess spilled fuel dry out before placing them inside, they'll be fine for a weekend trip for sure.
In my case at the winter Mohave trail run, I kept two CARB approved 2 1/2 gal. cans inside the back area. Between the heat and altitude radically changing the ambient preassures, I leaked about 2 tablespoons of gas inside my X. This was enough to disolve the seems of my poorly placed air mattress and stink up my sleeping quarters,to the point that I had to self intoxicate with rum just to get asleep.
On a good note the simi deflated mattress made a GREAT toboggan for going down our camp road O0
PS I'm ordering the steel for my new roof rack right now.
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funny thing is new good quality NATO jerry cans are around the same price as rotopax 4 gallon, yes they carry 20L or 5.2Gals but I was wondering where everyone was getting the good quality cans from for cheap.
ChrisHaynes has a good link for cheap cans over on TNX, I'll have to take a look.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
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I agree with what the Duffman was saying about carrying fuel inside the vehicle. Call me paranoid but I'm not comfortable with it in there with me, especially with the thought of a collision on road or roll over etc off road. On the last MJR that Toro ran a year ago, I had 5 gallons inside and strapped down in the back because I was trying to cut corners. The constant shifting of gear around it cracked the seal just enough coupled with elevation change that a very small amount leaked out of the Jerry can. I could smell it right away and fixed the problem quickly but fuel did already leak out. It didn't cause any real damage other than stinking like gasoline inside the X and the inside of my tent for that first night as it got onto a sleeping mat. After that experience, it's always tied down onto the roof or a tire swing out fuel carrier.
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Oh definitely, it no doubt adds more variables in the equation. When I had it in the back I had only the can strapped down and a few small things beside it, and watched it like a hawk throughout the trip. Large elevation and temperature changes could be an issue, yeah.
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I am doing a 4 day weekend in Death Valley starting Thursday night and just borrowed a good Jerry can from a friend and will strap it down inside this time. On the roof I usually only see Jerry cans mounted completely upright or laying down on edge. Both ways seem to need a rack/support of some sort to support them from toppling over. What are the thoughts of laying them on the side completely flat to cut down on wind resistance and possible tree branch wacking.
Also, I believe by law they are supposed to be red but many are not, has anyone ever heard of non red being an issue.
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With a good spout/cap seal, you "shouldn't" see any issues laying them down.
However, to Duffmans point there always seems to be seepage/expansion/shrinkage of cans depending on their material makeup/elevation/and temperature.
If I completely seal my Rotopax' empty, they will "suck in" or shrink as I travel around.
I have laid them down on my roof in the past, and never had an issue with seepage or leaks during travel.
During our last trek through DV, I did see MPG77's Rotopax seep a bit at the cap...just enough to collect a little dust around the collar. Very minor.
Sent from Cygnus X-1
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On the Death Valley trip in November, I had 5 gallons of gas & 5 gallons of water on the roof lying flat on their sides and had no issues. I have the rubber strips on the roof and they cushion them just fine. I also adjusted the factory cross-bars so they were snug and then ratchet-strapped them down.
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That's exactly what I was thinking. What are you using for rubber strips to protect the roof.
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Regarding the rubber strips, I'm not sure what Sage uses but I picked up these and they work great: http://www.courtesyparts.com/exterior/nissan-roof-protector-rubber-strip-kit/999m1-00006
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I'm sure that's exactly what he's using. They are actually an OEM Nissan part, but you can also use any kind of aftermarket rubber protector strips. The OEM ones are so cheap though (and high quality), that there's no reason not to use them. See this how-to:
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/15-how-tos/50018-how-nissan-roof-protector-strips.html
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to cover a few points, your gas cans should have a proper seal and not vent any fumes or gas but as said, they will expand due to altitude/temps and normal off gassing. Over time the cans pressure increases too much and if the gas can cannot expand, the pressure will have to go somewhere, normally past the gasket and out the lid. It's a good practice to open your fuel cans daily to help vent any excess pressure to prevent leaks, having the spout upright makes this much easier so you don't need to undo straps that are holding down the cans.
I have noticed my rotopax will bulge slightly when filled due to the pressure building, but i have never had an issue of the rotopax seeping or leaking even without venting them daily. Clints gas can mount is pretty snug with 5 rotopax and i think that may have been why his seeped a little bit on the DV trip, they may not have enough room for expansion. This is not a huge issue as they are outside the vehicle and it just collects a little dust. Now if they were mounted in the cabin, it would be a different story, like Randy's adventure out on the Mojave. Me personally, gasoline belongs outside the cabin, the chance of a spill and having to deal with the fumes is enough for me to not want to chance it. Kudos to those that have had no issues. I see no issue with having jerry cans on the roof laid down, as long as you have a good gasket(I would carry spares), if you are not sure about the seal, I would only fill the can with 4 gallons to allow enough room for expansion and keep an eye on it, stand it up if it starts to leak.
In CA, thanks to CARB, its required that gasoline containers be red, diesel is yellow, and kerosene is blue. All of which are the standard colors associated with each fuel type.
Containers also need to have identification for the type of fuel,
"embossed language, or permanent durable label “GASOLINE” in minimum 34-point
Arial font or a font of equivalent proportions"
Reference: http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/pfc/2005/cp501.pdf
I have never heard of any problems but i suppose someone having a bad day could cite you or take your gas MadMax style.
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Regarding the rubber strips, I'm not sure what Sage uses but I picked up these and they work great: http://www.courtesyparts.com/exterior/nissan-roof-protector-rubber-strip-kit/999m1-00006
I'm sure that's exactly what he's using. They are actually an OEM Nissan part, but you can also use any kind of aftermarket rubber protector strips. The OEM ones are so cheap though (and high quality), that there's no reason not to use them. See this how-to:
http://www.thenewx.org/forum/15-how-tos/50018-how-nissan-roof-protector-strips.html
That's the first time I've seen those, those look perfect for either Gen X.
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Yes, I have the Nissan roof strips. I used Home Depot ratchet straps, pulling the cans against each other from the sides with two straps each, then down against the roof front to rear with one strap each.
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OK,OK guys, I have found the Ultimate solution to storing extra gas (up to 12 gals!) on our rigs. Low profile, UV rated, vented and easily straped. I wll be showing off mine at this Saturday's Mod Day >:D
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In 3.....2........1.......
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I have my money on a boat tank, they have 6 and 12 gal. I wish I could come to the mod day, but I get 4 days in the back country of Death Valley instead.
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If you could get your hands on one cheap enough a hard plastic fuel cell would do the trick. You could even run an external holly style fuel pump to it and and it would pump the gas into your tank for ya.
Ya it's not the poor mans way to go but it would be a good setup.
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I have my money on a boat tank, they have 6 and 12 gal. I wish I could come to the mod day, but I get 4 days in the back country of Death Valley instead.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner lol
They can be found cheaply at dock swap meets or CL. I got a 12 gal. outboard gas tank with gauge and quick disconnect hose and siphon bulb. I can just drop the hose down from the roof rack to the filler, squeeze 3 or4 times on the bulb and let it flow. All for 50 bucks. The low profile tank comes with molded indentations for easy strapping. I will rarely fill it all the way up, but it's only 20"X 14"X 13" high.
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Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner lol
They can be found cheaply at dock swap meets or CL. I got a 12 gal. outboard gas tank with gauge and quick disconnect hose and siphon bulb. I can just drop the hose down from the roof rack to the filler, squeeze 3 or4 times on the bulb and let it flow. All for 50 bucks. The low profile tank comes with molded indentations for easy strapping. I will rarely fill it all the way up, but it's only 20"X 14"X 13" high.
So jealous... :P
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Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner lol
They can be found cheaply at dock swap meets or CL. I got a 12 gal. outboard gas tank with gauge and quick disconnect hose and siphon bulb. I can just drop the hose down from the roof rack to the filler, squeeze 3 or4 times on the bulb and let it flow. All for 50 bucks. The low profile tank comes with molded indentations for easy strapping. I will rarely fill it all the way up, but it's only 20"X 14"X 13" high.
So...do you fill it while it's on your roof?
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So...do you fill it while it's on your roof?
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/Funny%20Photos/Costco%20hose.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/Funny%20Photos/Costco%20hose.jpg.html)
PLUS
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/Funny%20Photos/costco%20step%20stool.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/Funny%20Photos/costco%20step%20stool.jpg.html)
EQUALS
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/Funny%20Photos/06c96c5b-cf69-4650-be1a-5c14dd2dd033.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/Funny%20Photos/06c96c5b-cf69-4650-be1a-5c14dd2dd033.jpg.html)
:) :) :)
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I need an image of it on the roof or its not real.
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randy would have to mail you a 3x5.
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I need an image of it on the roof or its not real.
It would be quicker to re-task a satellite to get you the image. lol
randy would have to mail you a 3x5.
...or this...^^
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According to the TV shows now, it only takes a hacker 5-10 key strokes to take over a Chinese Satellite and have it pointing at his Xterra. Perhaps someone else can get an image this weekend and post.
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That's brilliant Randy. I was looking at something like this before Steve came to the rescue.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-att-us&biw=360&bih=297&tbm=shop&ei=PQ68VqM1zsaPA-23uNAF&q=fuel+tank+12+gallon&oq=fuel+tank+12+gallon&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...16541.22317.0.22923.10.10.0.0.0.0.446.2444.0j5j2j1j2.10.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.4.1004.DUfZSxGhZBY#spd=5936830307381114172&spud=0
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something like this could be mounted in the little cubby under the rear floor, some cutting may be needed :D
http://www.wholesalemarine.com/moeller-12-gallon-below-deck-permanent-marine-fuel-tank.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA3Ou1BRDso5XyhduuwFASJABP3PEDj8q-xa1MAinREiJwob6HXGhANBFRLlBYWmpdKLe6URoCm-Hw_wcB
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Just an F.Y.I, I was filling a Jerry can last night at Costco and they have a sticker on the pump stating that CA law limits filling external gas cans to 6 gal. I doubt anyone would stop anyone from filling something bigger but I just noticed it. The larger marine tank of course would have to be filled on the roof so easy access with the pump handle would be somewhat important.
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randy would have to mail you a 3x5.
I laughed out loud (loled?) Jordan, but you F***ers are right!
But I'll show you, I'm gonna get my new camera, take a picture, upload it to my computer, then upload it again to some cloud somewhere and download it back to this thread. Take that you snotty geekoids. I'll show you!!!!
Just as soon as Nilda gets home.
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I laughed out loud (loled?) Jordan, but you F***ers are right!
But I'll show you, I'm gonna get my new camera, take a picture, upload it to my computer, then upload it again to some cloud somewhere and download it back to this thread. Take that you snotty geekoids. I'll show you!!!!
Just as soon as Nilda gets home.
Pics or it didn't happen! O0
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I laughed out loud (loled?) Jordan, but you F***ers are right!
But I'll show you, I'm gonna get my new camera, take a picture, upload it to my computer, then upload it again to some cloud somewhere and download it back to this thread. Take that you snotty geekoids. I'll show you!!!!
Just as soon as Nilda gets home.
Well when you figure out how to do that please let me know so I can show these kids once and for all you can teach an old dog new tricks! I do have a question, what's a "loled"? ? ?
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Pics or it didn't happen! O0
Pipe down you..........
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I love that idea Randy, but I do have one slight concern (the same concern I had when I was thinking of mounting a water tank to my roof), which is how will a bunch of sloshing liquid mounted that high above the center of gravity affect the vehicle while wheeling, especially if you get into a particularly hairy situation like the one I got in to up on Cleghorn a couple months back.
I took a bad line and ended up sliding into a rut and came to a stop with about 30 or 35 degrees of roll toward the passenger side and was well up on 3 or even 2 wheels. PainRoller and FixItGuy were quick to run over and jump on the driver's side to keep me from going all the way over. Simply having an extra 70 lbs (12 gallons of gas) on the roof probably wouldn't have been enough to send me tumbling all the way over in that incident, but having 50 lbs (8.5ish gallons) shift rapidly to that side of the roof while I was tipping would certainly have done the trick.
I've often wondered about the effects of slosh and the way it shifts weight. It doesn't seem to be an issue at all if the weight is low and you're under normal driving conditions - hell, they don't baffle stock fuel tanks or even large fuel tanker trucks that you see on the highway. But the moment you move that weight up high and insert yourself into a situation where you're guaranteed to be pitching and rolling a lot, I wonder what could happen. Probably a very low risk, but seems to me that your best bet would be to fill it all the way up every time you have it on your roof so the weight doesn't shift, and then to empty it fully when you do use it.
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Here's a fun idea: http://www.turtlepac.com/products/collapsible-jerry-can-fuel-tanks.html
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You're right Joe, it will add to the tilt-ability. But with a lower CG than an upright jerry can, and only being 14" wide, I don't think it's any worse. I'm more afraid of running out of gas than tipping over, when I'm geared up for a long run.
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Joe brings up a good point. Weight on the roof is a valid concern for tiltability...and by my basic math calcs 12 gallons of gas on the roof weighs roughly 84 pounds.
Any concern about this weight on the roof?
Sent from Cygnus X-1
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Joe brings up a good point. Weight on the roof is a valid concern for tiltability...and by my basic math calcs 12 gallons of gas on the roof weighs roughly 84 pounds.
Any concern about this weight on the roof?
Sent from Cygnus X-1
Pick a good line?
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Pick a good line?
Goes without saying. :)
But seriously, one of the biggest fails I saw in Moab each year was the bad habit of lashing a spare tire to the roof. Even with premium line choice, this increases the odds of a tight spot/off camber tip/roll over.
Honestly speaking, and this is by no means a dig at Duffman (well, maybe it is ;) ;) ;) )...but he rarely finds himself in those extreme situations, so probably not a concern there.
There is a reason most OEM fitments place the gas tank and spare tire underneath the vehicle...keeping the weight and CG low.
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I don't often say this, but Geo is right!
I drive one way when I'm fully loaded (pun intended) and more aggressively when not. I would not try the silly things that I love to do at Cleghorn, while fully loaded for a 3 or 4 day trip across a desert. Yes, sh** can happen anytime, but we all roll the dice a little whenever we go wheeling. In fact my whole roof rack comes off with 4 bolts for any serious stuff. I keep it module.
And Geo, I dig it when you dig me O0
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Photos or .................
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2080002_zps7gghpglp.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2080002_zps7gghpglp.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2100006_zpss3dcnpyv.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2100006_zpss3dcnpyv.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2100009_zpsk5rrzzlz.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2100009_zpsk5rrzzlz.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2110010_zpsoi5z0fxu.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2110010_zpsoi5z0fxu.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2110013_zps6cikugdk.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2110013_zps6cikugdk.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2110016_zpsjxcwaxxt.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2110016_zpsjxcwaxxt.jpg.html)
(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t458/rbduffer/P2110015_zpsxll8rhf3.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/rbduffer/media/P2110015_zpsxll8rhf3.jpg.html)
Take that Jordan!!!
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Nice Randy!
Did you do that all by yourself?
Build, photos, computer, internet, posting on SCCX?
I'm impressed regardless!
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I don't often say this, but Geo is right!
Marked my calendar. ;)
And Geo, I dig it when you dig me O0
:-* :-* :-*
Build, photos, computer, internet, posting on SCCX?
I'm impressed regardless!
Nilda did it...all. 8) 8) 8)
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Leave it the electrician. Unistrut is like McGyvers duct tape. :D
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Good call Tim, the stuff is magic, and I don't think Home Dumpo (we can say that now right?) even knows what it is.
And yes, o'yee of little faith, I did it all by myself...except for some of the spelling :-[