Southern California Club Xterra
Southern California Club Xterra => Off Topic => Topic started by: JFanaselle on October 23, 2015, 01:33:43 PM
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Sorry if this is a topic that's been discussed around here before (couldn't find anything on it via search), but I'm a little confused about REI and I wanted to bring it up, since we seem to have a lot of people who love REI around these parts.
I thought it was widely known that REI has adopted an official stance against motorized recreation, and that they indirectly and directly support this agenda by donating money to wilderness organizations and clubs that strongly oppose off-roading (and who's sole purpose is to limit access to public lands), and by refusing to donate to organizations that explicitly support motorized recreation. I've even seen their company name on an official petition in support of shutting down or limiting motor vehicle access to Moab National Park.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling people not to shop there, and I'm not trying to create a divide within the group. In fact, I'm really hoping you guys tell me I'm misinformed because I love their products. But it seems like whenever people have asked the company for their official stance on the topic, they dance around the issue by saying they "believe the use of public lands is a balance, and that supporting wilderness initiatives is a big part of that balance." But, because they don't support the other side of that "balance," they are essentially saying that there is already too much motor vehicle recreating and not enough restricted public lands. A quick Google search will yield many examples where people have emailed the company to ask them if they support off-roading, with that response/stance received in return. It's sort of like claiming that you're an Independent when it comes to politics, but then always voting Republican. If you always side with the Republican agenda and never vote for another party's candidate in your life, then you're a Republican who just refuses to accept it or admit it (disclaimer: this is just the best example I could think of and is not a representation of my political views one way or the other. Please - let's not make this a political discussion).
Clearly, the topic of access to public lands is a polarizing one, and groups like ours and overland-expedition groups seem to get stuck in the middle because overall, we believe strongly in conservation and not leaving a trace, and many of us recreate on public lands in ways other than off-roading (which is exactly why we love REI's products). But we still wheel, and therefore we are everything that's wrong with the world today according to certain organizations who believe there is no such thing as motorized recreation that doesn't cause harmful and irreversible damage to the environment. And it seems that REI agrees with these agendas, because they donate to groups like the Sierra Club and Conservation Alliance (who also receives donations from Columbia, The North Face and Merrell), but don't donate to organizations like The Blue Ribbon Coalition and Tread Lightly. I've always felt sort of pressured into avoiding REI and their products because of this, and I'm curious to know everyone else's thoughts.
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I've always felt sort of pressured into avoiding REI and their products because of this, and I'm curious to know everyone else's thoughts.
Well, for me it all boils down to doing what you love...
I love to off road. I also love to hike. I love to camp, and surf, etc....I love outdoorsy stuff.
I have been aware of REI's stance regarding off road use, and their support for those groups who oppose off roading.
I shop at REI and will continue to do so, because I cannot match their commitment to their customers anywhere else, and it's really not close. I have the REI app on my phone. I am a member, I get a dividend check at the end of the year, and is well known in most outdoorsy communities, if you don't like something you bought at REI for whatever reason, in whatever condition, you are free to take it back to them and they will give you a replacement, no questions asked, or a credit for the amount you paid.
I was torn about their political stance, and if was as easy as shopping at SFJ <REI +1> in lieu of shopping at REI, and get the same quality service, it's a done deal.
But, that's where I made my choice. I simply can't find another retailer that comes close to that dedication to it's customers. And that is more valuable to me than their political views and how those view impact one of my favorite hobbies.
Hope that made some sense.
-Christiaan
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nope most of this is true. REI doesnt support offroading. also many of their products are direct copies of other companies products.
i still shop there because like christian said, they do stand behind everything they sell and not many places do that anymore, im not aware of anywhere else other than costco that has a similar policy.
im used to everyone hating my hobbies, the two worst things you can do in the outdoors according to tree huggers is offroad and mountain bike.
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I didn't know their stance on off roading, I'm going to have to look into this because if it's true I may have to adjust where I spend my money. It would really be too bad because they have a store here close and like going in there for some products.
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IMO REI has great gear, but I always found to be a little more expensive than other stores (maybe to cost of supporting the tree huggers). I have found many of the same products at Outdoor Man (Bass Pro Shops) at a little less cost. They believe in the same philosophies as folk like us, MORE POWER. ;D (All hail the Tool Man)
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rei costs more, but not as much as a drive all the way to bass pro. we dont have many alternatives other than online down here in san diego, there are some small shops but their selection is not as good when trying to try before you buy. i will sometimes go to rei to look at something in person and then purchase it online cheaper. that 10% dividend at the end of the year also helps with the higher prices.
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So, which camp table do I get, Joe?
lol.
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LOL Steve - Like I said, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from shopping there. :) That's why I specifically didn't post my questions about REI in your camp table thread (that, and I've been jacking too many threads these days!)
That being said, it does look like Amazon is full of tables that are similar to the one that was suggested at REI. Personally, I like the larger green one you posted up from Amazon - it's the same size as one I almost bought from Sam's Club last year, which was $99, so it seems like a good deal.
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I'm aware of it too...REI directly supports the Sierra Club, which, as you know, is in direct conflict with vehicular off road access.
However, they also support opening trails for mountain bikers, and donated trail $$$$ to local San Diego efforts through IMBA and the SDMBA...which is cool.
Pick your poison...literally. ;D
Home Depot sells Monsato(Round Up) products, which are murdering bees worldwide...I still buy my isht there, and take my pay every two weeks...and one thing to remember: most REI employees drive cars to work, and pump gas...blah, blah, blah.
Shop Cablea's if it suits your conscience...but REI is close and for the reasons above and in other posts, I'll continue to drop some coin there too.
Now, about that Benghazi thingy... >:D >:D >:D
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REI has always been too expensive for our budget. Didn't know about their "green philosophy" - good info to file in the informed decision drawer....
We usually buy Amazon Prime - low cost, delivered to my door by the buff brown elf in under 2 days, great return policy for Primers.
We actually use Smile Amazon - which means a tiny little itty bitty portion goes to the charity of our choice. ;)
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Clearly, the topic of access to public lands is a polarizing one, and groups like ours and overland-expedition groups seem to get stuck in the middle because overall, we believe strongly in conservation and not leaving a trace, and many of us recreate on public lands in ways other than off-roading (which is exactly why we love REI's products).
I'd agree, most of the ones who get into overland seem to be fairly contentious about conservation, because they spend as much time being outside and camping (AKA enjoying the outdoors) as compared to any other outdoor recreation. And not just overland, I've noticed enough of the hardcore crawlers have little interest to go fast and tear up the trail and are there to do much more technical driving, crawling essentially. They're usually breaking much more on their rigs as compared to breaking the trail in any way.
Kind of a related point that comes to mind; bringing a vehicle outdoors sets more responsibility on the driver because of the equipment, I completely agree with that. If a truck breaks down and spills oil, it's the driver's responsibility to make sure everything is cleaned up.
But we still wheel, and therefore we are everything that's wrong with the world today according to certain organizations who believe there is no such thing as motorized recreation that doesn't cause harmful and irreversible damage to the environment. And it seems that REI agrees with these agendas, because they donate to groups like the Sierra Club and Conservation Alliance (who also receives donations from Columbia, The North Face and Merrell), but don't donate to organizations like The Blue Ribbon Coalition and Tread Lightly. I've always felt sort of pressured into avoiding REI and their products because of this, and I'm curious to know everyone else's thoughts.
Also
im used to everyone hating my hobbies, the two worst things you can do in the outdoors according to tree huggers is offroad and mountain bike.
And the thing is 'proper' outdoor groups, I'd venture to say like us - who do things like Adopt A Trail and just generally be good examples for the rest - help keep those public trails and outdoor spaces open, no matter what their activity of choice is.
Now I don't want to seem like I'm hounding on people who just stay in the city - if you choose to stay inside they city, that's great, there are tons of amazing things to do in LA, OC, SD, and the IE; you name it So Cal probably has it - but I've noticed most of the ignorance comes from groups who have little to no experience outdoors.
So I'm not going to hold much against REI from what I've seen so far: I previously didn't know about them being part of trying to close down motor access in public lands, but I'll chalk that to being sometimes misguided by outside hands, but not necessarily evil or whatnot.
And as much as we like to bash on Jeeps, they are at a disadvantage being the "go-to" offroad vehicle in the public eye, and that can attract a not so ideal crowd, which can be part of land use problem. (I'll still bash on their ridiculous prices though ;))
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So I'm not going to hold much against REI from what I've seen so far: I previously didn't know about them being part of trying to close down motor access in public lands, but I'll chalk that to being sometimes misguided by outside hands, but not necessarily evil or whatnot.
And as much as we like to bash on Jeeps, they are at a disadvantage being the "go-to" offroad vehicle in the public eye, and that can attract a not so ideal crowd, which can be part of land use problem. (I'll still bash on their ridiculous prices though ;))
Both very good points, Alex.
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Just saw this on my FB feed:
REI CLOSED ON BLACK FRIDAY
In an effort to push back against consumerism, all REI stores/outlets will be closed on Black Friday, giving their employees a day to themselves, and removing themselves from the list of gluttonous corporations looking to add to the feeding frenzy that is Black Friday.
Pretty cool IMO
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Just saw this on my FB feed:
REI CLOSED ON BLACK FRIDAY
In an effort to push back against consumerism, all REI stores/outlets will be closed on Black Friday, giving their employees a day to themselves, and removing themselves from the list of gluttonous corporations looking to add to the feeding frenzy that is Black Friday.
Pretty cool IMO
Agreed.
Sent from Cygnus X-1
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Here's the email I got from REI
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/633/Sne7sZ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/hlSne7sZj)
ETA: that came from a screen shot on the iPad. Hard to read. Here's the text.
This Black Friday the co-op is doing something different. We