Southern California Club Xterra
Southern California Club Xterra => SCCX General Discussion => Topic started by: steve c on December 27, 2014, 09:43:43 AM
-
The company I work for gave me a very generous Costco Cash card for an end of the year thank you.
Instead of blowing it on booze and steaks, I was thinking of buying a battery from Costco. Heck, maybe even two for a dual battery set up.
I guess the first question should be, are they worth buying? I know Costco has a great warranty/return policy. That could be good for batteries!
Next, would it make sense to do a dual battery set up for no other reason than that I have "free" money to spend on batteries? Santa and his elves also brought me a few hundred dollars to Amazon, so between those two stores I should be able to get a set up rolling, right?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Also, paging Jordan and Toro. Where should I send the burritos and beer for your help?
-
No clue on the quality of Costco brand batteries but going dual just cause you have excess cash seems overkill IMO, you don't have an abundance of electrics on your truck so its kind of a waste. If you want backup for emergency use, I would get one of these. Antigravity Batteries Micro-Start Jump Starter/Personal Power Supply XP-1 XP-1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDYYK4A/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_OBWNub06DKVK4
-
Looks like Costco brand batteries are no more, they sell interstate now.
-
You're probably right Jordan... Like always.
Well, I do need to replace my battery so maybe I'll just buy one an guinea pig it for everyone.
-
Steve- I have bought my last few batteries at Wal Mart with success. Costco batteries (Kirkland) should be fine...Interstate are better.
Unless you are frequently winching or utilizing another high amp draw item (fridge), I echo Jordan's sentiments.
Prolly money better spent on steaks and booze. (You have my # btw, so expecting a call soon) ;)
For a nice dual battery set up, meander over to ChrisHaynesUSA's build thread either here or over at thenewx. It is a sweet set up with real world winch and fridge usage.
Sent from Planet Claire
using Tapatalk
-
You're on the DO call list John; don't worry.
I can't find much about batteries on Costco's site. I'll just have to go down there and ask.
Santa also brought me a Costco membership. I'm spoiled. :D
-
Check this thread out Steve:
Kodiak Dual Battery Set Up - ChrisHaynesUSA (http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37617&highlight=kodiak)
-
Another great dual battery write up. GeoExplorer this time. Much more in depth on the install and theory.
GeoExplorer's Dual Battery Set Up (http://www.thenewx.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30100&highlight=dual+battery)
-
Thanks John. Jordan, do you know how to do this? ???
Otherwise, I'll just get a replacement and move on for now :D
-
Yea the Kodiak kit is the best way IMO since in includes the new tray for the batteries, but your stuck using the batteries they built the tray for, they are awesome batteries but still way overkill unless you got ChrisHaynesUSA money. If you want more capacity/power without as much complication, look at group 31m marine batteries, they are the biggest battery you will fit in the stock location, I have one with 100ah of capacity, more than the odessey batteries used in the Kodiak kit combined. http://m.sears.com/diehard-platinum-marine-battery-group-size-31m-price/p-02850131000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=02850131000&kispla=02850131000P all that you need to do is wire a small extension to the positive lead
-
Steve - I actually just purchased a battery from Costco about 3 weeks ago. It's the best deal out there in the market. I got the 24F and it was a perfect fit. If I recal correctly, Costo had their own name for the size. As everyone has already mentioned, it's branded as Interstate now. However, even the old Kirkland batteries were made by Johnson Controls, who also makes Interstate. I would venture to bet it's the exact same battery, just rebranded. The employee at Costco even told the that the Kirkland batteries they used to sell were delivered by an Interstate truck. Anyway, it also has a 48 month FULL replacement warranty, not pro-rated. It was about $84 plus tax, came to just over $90 out the door.
As for the dual battery setup - the only advantage to running two standard batteries would be if you draw heavy amperage at times like Ghost said (winching, etc). I have a dual setup right now, but my second battery is a small deep cycle battery that is made for discharging and recharning without damaging. This allows me to run all of my lights, inverter, etc while the Xterra is off and still have a fully charged starting battery when I need it. I didn't even bother with the Kodiak kit, I just pieced it together myself. The second battery is the smallest Optima Yellow Top made, and it's actually mounted under the front seat. I ran a 4 gauge wire up to the first battery and installed a 200 amp isolator between, which I wired to the ignition. Basically, everytime the ignition is on, the batteries are connected together in parallel (and therefore both charge off of the alternator) and everytime the ignition is off, they are seperated. All of the lighting and accessories are then connected to a fuse box that runs off of the second battery only. It's a REALLY simple setup as far as dual batteries are concerned. It was super cheap and works perfectly for what I wanted. :)
-
Steve - I actually just purchased a battery from Costco about 3 weeks ago. It's the best deal out there in the market. I got the 24F and it was a perfect fit. If I recal correctly, Costo had their own name for the size. As everyone has already mentioned, it's branded as Interstate now. However, even the old Kirkland batteries were made by Johnson Controls, who also makes Interstate. I would venture to bet it's the exact same battery, just rebranded. The employee at Costco even told the that the Kirkland batteries they used to sell were delivered by an Interstate truck. Anyway, it also has a 48 month FULL replacement warranty, not pro-rated. It was about $84 plus tax, came to just over $90 out the door.
As for the dual battery setup - the only advantage to running two standard batteries would be if you draw heavy amperage at times like Ghost said (winching, etc). I have a dual setup right now, but my second battery is a small deep cycle battery that is made for discharging and recharning without damaging. This allows me to run all of my lights, inverter, etc while the Xterra is off and still have a fully charged starting battery when I need it. I didn't even bother with the Kodiak kit, I just pieced it together myself. The second battery is the smallest Optima Yellow Top made, and it's actually mounted under the front seat. I ran a 4 gauge wire up to the first battery and installed a 200 amp isolator between, which I wired to the ignition. Basically, everytime the ignition is on, the batteries are connected together in parallel (and therefore both charge off of the alternator) and everytime the ignition is off, they are seperated. All of the lighting and accessories are then connected to a fuse box that runs off of the second battery only. It's a REALLY simple setup as far as dual batteries are concerned. It was super cheap and works perfectly for what I wanted. :)
Great post Joe. Thanks for the info...any pics of the battery isolator?
-
Yeah, seriously great post.
I don't really have any aux electronics at the moment besides the HAM radio.
Just out of curiosity I wonder if Costco sells a deep cycle battery similar to the optima you used?
Yeah, pics would be great. Make sure to remove your front seat so we get the full idea of what's going on :D :D :D
-
And thanks Jordan. I forgot to reply to your post!
-
Sorry guys, I've been away from the computer for a couple of days. I'll get some pics up later today.
-
Ok, here is how the setup works:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/2ndBattery.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/2ndBattery.jpg.html)
The main battery reamins in its normal position under the hood, and the alternator reamins connected to it like normal - you don't have to do anything to these items.
I connected a 4 gauge wire to the positive terminal on the battery. This runs to a 200 amp circuit breaker, and then to the battery isolator. The battery isolator is essentially a giant relay - it has a low-amp positive input, a low amp negative input, and 2 high-amp (200 amps in the case of this one) terminals that become connected inside the isolator once there is power provided to the low-amp positive input. I connected the low-amp positive terminal on the isolator to a fuse tap that is drawing power from a circuit in the fuse box that is only on when the key is in the "on" position (I don't remember which specific fuse I tapped in to, but it really doesn't matter because the current draw to switch the isolator to the "on" position is like .3 amps).
So the 4 gauge wire continues on after the isolator and goes through the firewall, where it is connected to a "distribution block." The distribution block is not shown in the schematic above, but it's the point where the red positive wire splices off and runs to the aux fuse box. So the 4 gauge wire then continues on to a second 200 amp circuit breaker and then to the positive terminal on the Optima battery. The negative terminal on the Optima battery is simply grounded to the body of the Xterra using one of the seat bolts.
The wire that runs from the distribution block to the aux fuse box is 8 gauge. I mounted the aux fuse box behind the glove box (sorry, don't have any photos of that). It has 10 fuses and 5 relays, and is powering the Ham Radio, Inverter, amber strobe lights, LED light bar, LED side lights, LED rear lights, etc...
With the setup wired like this, both batteries are connected in series when the Xterra is on/running. This allows the alternator to charge both batteries, and allows every single item in the Xterra to run off of both batteries as if they were one giant battery. Once the key is switched off, the isolator separates the circuits, which basically disconnects the Aux battery from the rest of the car. The aux fuse box is connected to the circuit AFTER the isolator, so it's basically only connected to the Optima battery when the key is off. This allows me to run all of my lights, inverter, etc with the key off and doesn't drain the starting battery.
If I completely drain the Aux battery, I can simply reach under the front seat and flick off the circuit breaker that is mounted near the positive terminal on the Aux battery. This ensures that the dead battery won't immediately drain the main starting battery under the hood as soon as I turn the key on and the isolator connects the batteries together. Once the Xterra has been started (and runs for a few seconds to recharge the starting battery), I can flick the curcuit breaker back on and allow the alternator to recharge the deep-cycle Optima battery. I try not to make a habit of this, because the amount of current flowing to the aux battery can be pretty high and could damage the battery or put too much strain on the wiring.
One thing I can do is leave the curcuit breaker switched off and put a battery charger on it when I get home. With the Xterra running (or the key "on") and the second curcuit breaker (the one closer to the Optima battery) switched off, the lights and accessories work just fine using the alternator/main battery because the the distribution block that sends power off to the Aux fuse box is located BEFORE the curcuit breaker that is switched off.
If, for some reason, I want to separate the circuit entirely and have the accessories that are connected to the Aux fuse box run ONLY using the Optima battery even with the key in the "on" position, I can switch off the curcuit breaker that is BEFORE the isolator near the main starting battery. If the 4 gauge wire were to short out anywhere between the two batteries (or the 8 gauge wire before the Aux fuse box), it would ground out both batteries and trip both of the circuit breakers. So the breakers are there more as a safety measure, but also add the convenience of being able to control how the auxillary accessories are connected to the batteries.
In this photo, you can see the 4 gauge wire running from the positive post on the battery to the first circuit breaker, then to the isolator, and then on to the hole in the firewall:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt1.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt1.jpg.html)
Here is a close-up shot of the connections on the isolator:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt2.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt2.jpg.html)
Here is how the Optima battery is mounted under the driver's seat:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt3.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt3.jpg.html)
The battery is an Optima model D51. It's the smallest battery they make and the only one that will fit under the seat like this. I could be wrong, but I believe the Off Road and Pro 4X versions of the Xterra already have a bunch of crap under the seats for the audio system. Anyway, I mounted the battery down using two "L brackets" that are screwed to the floor with self tapping sheet metal screws, and then used two regular battery tie downs that hook to holes in the L brackets and run through a long piece of metal with a bunch of holes in it (I think it's called plumber's tape or plumber's strapping, it's commonly used to anchor conduit and pipes to walls and what not).
In this photo, you can see a close-up of the Optima battery and the second 200-amp circuit breaker near the positive terminal. If you look toward the top of the photo, you can see the negative battery wire and where it grounds out to the body of the Xterra when the seat is mounted:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt4.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt4.jpg.html)
In these photos, you can see what the battery looks like with the seat mounted in place. The seat slides just fine, and the rear seat passenger has plenty of room for their feet under the seat (the photo from the rear seat has the driver's seat slid all the way forward so you can see the battery). The seat also slides forward and back just fine with the battery under there:
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt5.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt5.jpg.html)
(http://i971.photobucket.com/albums/ae195/DzrtX/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt6.jpg) (http://s971.photobucket.com/user/DzrtX/media/The%20GhostX/GhostX%20Mods/batt6.jpg.html)
I purchased the isolator on eBay for under $50. It is very similar to this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAC200-High-Current-Relay-Dual-Battery-Isolator-200-AMP-for-Multi-Battery-System-/360432953695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53eb7a695f
The curcuit breakers also came from eBay and are under $10 each shipped. They are similar to these ones: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-AMP-12V-DC-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-REPLACE-FUSE-200A-12-24V-DC-FAST-FREE-USA-SHIP-/390474856510?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5aea1d783e&vxp=mtr
I had the 4 gauge wire and distribution block lying around from some old car audio projects, but you can also get these on the cheap online (the wire is the most expensive part, but you can find it for under $.30 a foot if you shop around). The complete setup can be had for WELL under $200 plus the price of the battery. I got my battery free from a buddy of mine, but I believe it runs about $160 retail.
Hopefully this all makes sense, it's a bit hard to explain. I can answer any questions if necessary. :)
-
Just a couple things that worry me about your setup is the lack of a charge controller for the yellow top. While optimas can take a rapid recharge, you must monitor the temperature of the battery as it can explode if overheated, a charge controller would limit the amps flowing into the battery. Also 200amp fuse is a bit oversized for 4ga wire.
Your correct about the audio gear on pro4x, drivers side has a sub and the passenger side is the amp.
-
Just a couple things that worry me about your setup is the lack of a charge controller for the yellow top. While optimas can take a rapid recharge, you must monitor the temperature of the battery as it can explode if overheated, a charge controller would limit the amps flowing into the battery. Also 200amp fuse is a bit oversized for 4ga wire.
Your correct about the audio gear on pro4x, drivers side has a sub and the passenger side is the amp.
Both valid points.
The overcharging factor is another good reason to recharge the Optima using a battery charger instead of the alternator if fully dead. So far, I haven't run the battery down below 11.8 volts while using it. And like I said, I don't really plan to, it's more of a backup plan to ensure that I have a good starting battery if I run accessories for too long. However, this is straight off of the Optima website:
YELLOWTOP
-
I get your thinking but the alternator is not charging your optima, the optima is pulling a large draw from your starting battery. Picture you have 2 large tanks, each one represents a battery, you have a large pipe connecting each tank together with a valve. If one tank is full and one empty and you open that valve, the water will rush from the full tank to the empty tank as fast as the pipe allows, possibly overloading that pipe, causing it to burst. When the engine is running the voltage difference is even greater, causing the inrush of current to be even higher.
-
Good point Jordan, but this setup really doesn't differ from virtually any dual battery "kit" that's available on the market, even the Kodiak kit. As far as I can tell (mind you, my research is limited to people's install threads on thenewx.com, since the Kodiak website really doesn't have much info), their kit uses a solenoid based isolator exactly like the one I am using. There is an included switch that allows you to decide when the isolator is engaged or disengaged (which I've replaced by simply wiring it to the ignition circuit and using the key to decide that instead), and it uses fuses in place of the breakers.
Is your main concern that the Optima battery can't handle the way the battery is recharged in a dual setup like this, but the Odyssey batteries provided in the kit can? Because, again, I don't see any kind of charging regulator being provided with the dual battery kits everyone is running and they're not having any issues (many of them running Optima batteries, even).
The point you bring up does increase the concern that I could be pulling 140 or 150 amps through the wiring while recharging (while I should be running 100 or less through that length of run) and that it would get my wiring too hot without tripping my breaker(s), but you've already convinced me that I need to use smaller breakers and that change will be taking place. :) Maybe I should swap my battery-to-battery run out to 2 gauge wiring, also.
What are your suggestions for regulating the charging?
-
Too much smart talk going on above. I'm trying to follow.
Anyways, thanks for the replies.
-
you may want to consider the hellroaring battery isolator particularly the BIC 95150B. http://www.hellroaring.com/BIC-95150B%20instructions%20rev%20B.PDF (http://www.hellroaring.com/BIC-95150B%20instructions%20rev%20B.PDF)
It is the best one I have found that provides the control needed for our kind of usage.
Waiting for a couple more items and I can give you a full description and review of this isolator.
-
You are correct jfanaselle, I guess no one uses any sort of controller or anything. I don't know if I would ever do it that way.
I would simply install smaller fuses and call your setup good, you shouldn't ever need more than 100 amps going from the main battery to the aux battery or vise versa, so bigger cable won't really do much for you. If you ever have a situation where you can't start because your main battery is dead, you could just charge the main battery off the aux battery for a few mins then you would have enough to start.
-
You are correct jfanaselle, I guess no one uses any sort of controller or anything. I don't know if I would ever do it that way.
I would simply install smaller fuses and call your setup good, you shouldn't ever need more than 100 amps going from the main battery to the aux battery or vise versa, so bigger cable won't really do much for you. If you ever have a situation where you can't start because your main battery is dead, you could just charge the main battery off the aux battery for a few mins then you would have enough to start.
All your amps are belong to us.
Do I need anything special when I go to Costco and buy a battery? Should I buy a deep cycle marine battery from them? Do I need anything special then? Do they even sell fancy boat batteries?
All the questions!
-
If you get the same group battery as stock, you won't need anything, just remove and replace. If you go for a bigger marine battery, you have to make sure the positive is on the correct side, with the posts towards the back, the positive or red post is on the left. Depending Costco batteries may be different but on mine I had to extend the positive lead by 2 inches with a short jumper, if the post on the Costco battery are close to the edge like the stock battery you won't need to extend.
-
Do I need anything special when I go to Costco and buy a battery?
Membership card... :D :D :D
-
Membership card... :D :D :D
ERMAHGERD, the lawls are killing me! To early for such lols, much lol, wow.
Thanks Jordan. I will "research" deep cycle marine batteries available at Costco, with my Costco card.
-
Fwiw, here's a picture of my friends battery when we installed his. I didn't have my crimper so we bought a short extension with a battery terminal on one end and an ring terminal on the other. Battery is a group 31 marine battery.
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/13/d06ccfb3419459e6b5e02368c8f4b271.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/13/4473829802ff40035fa603d4425bf051.jpg)
Also ignore the hack job wiring sitting near the battery, we were going out to the desert to test out various led lights so it was temporary.
-
Whelp, at 56,420 miles my stock 2012 Xterra battery forced my percrastinating hand.
At 5:40am when I went to turn the truck on to go to the gym, I got nothin'!
Called AAA and they brought me a battery. $106 charged to the card - not the Costco card as originally planned, but that's okay.
The nice man that came to help me ran some sort of diagnostic tests once everything was installed and said I was good to go.
Tieny and his brand new Dodge. I was his first replacement with the new ride. He was very happy with it, lol
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/1dyQDC.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/ip1dyQDCj)
Really, I'm impressed it lasted this long.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/m4LJRu.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pam4LJRuj)
And Soul Control gave me this fancy Stillen battery dress up kit/ battery holder downer.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/iabSLC.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/f0iabSLCj)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/907/Mxno0c.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/p7Mxno0cj)
From what I understand, the battery has a 6 year warranty where 3 years are full replacement and the last 3 are prorated.
It is an Interstate batter with AAA branding.
So, next I should probably replace those disgusting terminals. How do I do that?
-
Too bad he didn't have a maintenance free battery, I lost one of the covers on the Mojave rd, that forced my hand to buy a new battery.
-
Mojave does horrible, horrible things to our rigs.
-
Mojave does horrible, horrible things to our rigs.
x2
-
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/910/m4LJRu.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pam4LJRuj)
One of your issues might have been poor charging/contact. Those battery terminals are pretty furry Steve...might have sprouted a gremlin. :D
x2
Most...seem...to be...self...inflicted. ;)
-
Believe it or not John, it use to be much worse!
Jordan helped me clean the terminals and install those felt circles between the battery and terminals.
How do I go about changing the terminals?
-
yes, steve also sprayed the terminals with the red spray to combat the furries from returning, looks like it didnt help completely.
replacement terminals for ya steve, http://www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Marine-Battery-Terminal-Kit/dp/B004LR5K30
-
Most...seem...to be...self...inflicted. ;)
Well, in all honesty....one side mirror and a tire blown after racing through some of that desert terrain....I'm feelin pretty lucky all in all
-
I forgot about the mirror, that was a lucky one
-
Steve how old is that battery? It looks a lot like the terminals on an old battery I had on another vehicle that was leaking.
So you could replace the fusible link on the positive. http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Nissan-Battery-Fusible-24380-79915/dp/B00F66O6B2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0E6KCBAA68DQ1KX994J1 (http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Nissan-Battery-Fusible-24380-79915/dp/B00F66O6B2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0E6KCBAA68DQ1KX994J1)
And you could cut off the negative terminal and solder/crimp a new terminal on it.
And I would say a new battery(preferably a sealed gel/agm) is definitely in your near future. While you are changing it out definitely take some a strong base solution(Baking soda and water) to the box and hold-down. Then use the felt washers and "red stuff" and see what happens.
-
No need to replace the fusable link, the stock terminal attaches with a bolt and nut similar to what the marine terminals I linked to have, you would just need to cut off the negative and have a ring terminal crimped on to attach to the negative post clamp.
-
It just looked like the corrosion completely covered the fusible link. I think what $26.00 would be a cheap price to pay if you are going to do it. Then would have a trail spare.