Southern California Club Xterra

Southern California Club Xterra => SCCX General Discussion => Topic started by: Celt on April 24, 2018, 10:34:23 AM

Title: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 24, 2018, 10:34:23 AM
 As much as it pains me I'm considering leaving most of my 18th century technology and getting a off road navigation system. As much as this chaps my backside and my love of a map and compass it may not be a bad idea. What I'm requesting is information on your experiences with different systems. Some things I do not wish to do is:

1. Spend a ton of money (Under about $300).
2. Have a monthly subscription.
3. Have to constantly buy and load maps into the system.

 What is desirable:
1. Easy to use without having to have all manner of resetting settings that you already set, pushing buttons and the like.
2. Have it easily removable from the vehicle is a definite plus.
3. Sending text messages would be a plus but not absolutely necessary.
4. Big enough screen to be able to see everything without having to constantly zoom in and out.
5. Be able to download the trip and save it on my home computer.

  I might be chasing a unknown dragon here with all those requests but I know that a lot of you guys run many different systems so I would appreciate your input on what you use or have used. This would be mainly for off road use but some on road navigation would be helpful but not 100% necessary (I still love my maps). What I'm not interested in so much is a cell phone app. I hate cellphones and hate trying to fool with stupid apps and trying to keep the phone charged while running. When I turn off the pavement the phone gets shut off and tossed somewhere in the vehicle as they are a mobile leash. I'm not interested in telling the world where I am or what I'm doing. Drives me nuts sitting around a campfire and seeing people fooling with their cell phones. Any suggestions would be super appreciated.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: G.B.H. on April 24, 2018, 11:26:40 AM
I'm with you on this. I use maps and my hiking GPS. The screen is so small though that I am constantly stopping to get a better look. I wish I could volunteer some helpful information but I'm in the same boat.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: CVXTERRA on April 24, 2018, 02:25:20 PM
Let me start this off by saying I am probably not the most qualified to speak on this... so I am going to go ahead and speak on this.


I mainly use GPS for hiking and trip planning. I spent a fair bit of time looking into the best option for a handheld GPS/NAV unit that had everything I desired. After weighing all of my options I actually went with an app for my phone. The reasons were simple. I already owned it, it is a pretty high end piece of tech, it's GPS capabilities are pretty comparable with modern stand alone GPS, and if using for GPS alone the battery drain is really low.

While the phone screen is pretty small, one account lets you long in on any device. iPad, computer, laptop, phone. So if you're running a tablet mount in your X then you will have a decent size screen and decent location services.

 The app I use is Gaia GPS. They have a premium service for about $40/year, less if you buy a 5 year plan. I know I know, subscription plans suck, and they used to sell the app for $20 with lifetime, but I think the sub helps them continue to update and add new layers and sat images. This will come with all the nat geo maps, all their satellite overlays, topo maps, as well as a bunch of overlays for hunting, public/private lands, and they are really starting to get into the off road nav aspects of it. I have tracked and planned hundreds of miles of hiking thorough this app and have been pretty impressed with it. I will say that it is more geared for hiking, but the overlays should serve you well. 


To sum it all up, if you already own a capable device, using its existing GPS/NAV features with a powerful app like GAIA GPS might be a good bet.

hope this aimless rant helped a bit more than it hurt  ;)

LINK to their site    https://www.gaiagps.com/premium/
ALSO,
This seems like there will be loads of helpful stuff in it, but I DID NOT read it!   https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/ask-me-about-gaia-gps.6959/


-CVX
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: steve c on April 24, 2018, 03:07:33 PM
Buddy, let me start this off by saying I'm not calling you a dummy.

But, for dummies like you, something like this (http://www.magellangps.com/Outdoor-Navigation/Magellan-TRX-Off-road-GPS-Navigation) would be pretty sweet.
 These are idiot proof and seem to work very well for people. 

Specifically, this yougin' would recommend the following:

TRX7 (http://www.magellangps.com/Store/TRX-Off-Road-Navigators/Magellan-TRX7-Dual-Mount-Trail-and-Street-GPS-Navigator) (comes with charging cradle, ram mount etc)
or
TR7 (http://www.magellangps.com/Store/TRX-Off-Road-Navigators/Magellan-TR7-Trail-and-Street-GPS-Navigator)

The MSRP on Magellan's site is high.  These units can be found online for less and are sometimes on sale. 

Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: JFanaselle on April 24, 2018, 04:15:30 PM
For ease of use, I'm definitely going to second Steve's recommendation. The interface on these units is about as easy as navigation gets. Unfortunately, it's a bit out of your price range, but you are asking for a little too much with those features at a $300 price point.

The only real way to stay within that price point would be to use an inexpensive tablet with an in-vehicle mounting system (I'm personally using a RAM setup), and use an off-road navigation application such as Backcountry Navigator. A decent tablet with the proper functionality would run about $100, the application is a one-time purchase of about $25, and you'd spend about another $50 on the mounting hardware. Trouble is, the application is not very intuitive at all, and although it's VERY capable for our needs, there's quite a learning curve associated with using it to accomplish everything you are after. Plus, you have to download maps ahead of time (they're usually free, but there are also some paid sources if you choose to use them) into the memory of the device, so that you can access them in the middle of no where with no internet signal. Per your original post, it sounds like this is something you're looking to avoid.

Edit: I didn't realize the TR5 and TR7 are both under $300. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 24, 2018, 04:23:55 PM
Buddy, let me start this off by saying I'm not calling you a dummy.

But, for dummies like you, something like this (http://www.magellangps.com/Outdoor-Navigation/Magellan-TRX-Off-road-GPS-Navigation) would be pretty sweet.
 These are idiot proof and seem to work very well for people. 

Specifically, this yougin' would recommend the following:

TRX7 (http://www.magellangps.com/Store/TRX-Off-Road-Navigators/Magellan-TRX7-Dual-Mount-Trail-and-Street-GPS-Navigator) (comes with charging cradle, ram mount etc)
or
TR7 (http://www.magellangps.com/Store/TRX-Off-Road-Navigators/Magellan-TR7-Trail-and-Street-GPS-Navigator)

The MSRP on Magellan's site is high.  These units can be found online for less and are sometimes on sale. 



  Steve (and Joe), I really appreciate the info and I'm definitely looking into those models you posted. They seem to have everything I posted that I was interested in. I'll be the first to admit me and technology do not get along. It's one sided to be sure and that's on my end. I guess I'll probably never change. I grew up when something like a telephone without a cord was not something yet seen and channels 6, 8 and 10 on the black and white tv were what we had as long as you could adjust the rabbit ears. I liked things just fine the way they were so this is a big step. I know many may snicker at that and it's certainly ok!
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: RBduffer on April 25, 2018, 08:48:49 PM
Yeah, what a Dumb Ass Celt...  Snicker, snicker >:D
BTW, how do you spell TR7?
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 25, 2018, 09:23:23 PM
Yeah, what a Dumb Ass Celt...  Snicker, snicker >:D
BTW, how do you spell TR7?

 "Tee Are Seven", put that in your pipe and smoke it smart arse!

                                            8)
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 25, 2018, 09:28:54 PM
What will be even better is when all this app, magic info from the sky goes down and these guys are looking at themselves melting like little snowflakes out in the middle of nowhere. Intersection and Re-Section, Declination angles etc are a forgotten art with these young ones. Compass? Yeah that little thing that spins and has numbers on it......Heh Heh Heh.


 In all honesty I really want to upgrade but will never stop using the map and compass and altimeter.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on April 26, 2018, 08:20:29 AM
As much as it pains me I'm considering leaving most of my 18th century technology and getting a off road navigation system. As much as this chaps my backside and my love of a map and compass it may not be a bad idea. What I'm requesting is information on your experiences with different systems. Some things I do not wish to do is:

1. Spend a ton of money (Under about $300).
2. Have a monthly subscription.
3. Have to constantly buy and load maps into the system.

 What is desirable:
1. Easy to use without having to have all manner of resetting settings that you already set, pushing buttons and the like.
2. Have it easily removable from the vehicle is a definite plus.
3. Sending text messages would be a plus but not absolutely necessary.
4. Big enough screen to be able to see everything without having to constantly zoom in and out.
5. Be able to download the trip and save it on my home computer.

  I might be chasing a unknown dragon here with all those requests but I know that a lot of you guys run many different systems so I would appreciate your input on what you use or have used. This would be mainly for off road use but some on road navigation would be helpful but not 100% necessary (I still love my maps). What I'm not interested in so much is a cell phone app. I hate cellphones and hate trying to fool with stupid apps and trying to keep the phone charged while running. When I turn off the pavement the phone gets shut off and tossed somewhere in the vehicle as they are a mobile leash. I'm not interested in telling the world where I am or what I'm doing. Drives me nuts sitting around a campfire and seeing people fooling with their cell phones. Any suggestions would be super appreciated.

Great post Celt...as these are some of the very questions running through my head recently with respect to an in-cab tablet mounted GPS capable unit.

For some of the guys who use them (Joe, Steve, Jordan, anyone else with qualified experience???) could you please post up some pics of your mounts/locations? 

I've been conducting a little Schmoogle research on RAM mounts, so pretty familiar there, but after meeting with Frank B. and seeing his dash mounted cell phone holder and his success....curious about more info on the topic.

Also wanted to mention, seeing (and hearing) Joe's nav success while crossing some very remote/no cell territory, left my paper map mind reeling.

Consider this Erik, and I totally get the map/compass/sun dial apocalypse back up plan...buuuut, you never have to fold that g**damn thing back up to fit into your door pocket!

Note:  I currently have an older (2015) iPad Air 32GB that I am considering as the base unit for this application...thoughts?
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 26, 2018, 08:45:56 AM

Consider this Erik, and I totally get the map/compass/sun dial apocalypse back up plan...buuuut, you never have to fold that g**damn thing back up to fit into your door pocket!


 That and I'm getting a sizeable map collection in the Xterra. When you get a chance please post up what you find out works for you. I know Frank B was talking about the RAM mounts but I have not seen his setup. There are a lot of great ideas out there. Hopefully this will be a good idea for me to implement.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on April 26, 2018, 09:10:15 AM
That and I'm getting a sizeable map collection in the Xterra. When you get a chance please post up what you find out works for you. I know Frank B was talking about the RAM mounts but I have not seen his setup. There are a lot of great ideas out there. Hopefully this will be a good idea for me to implement.

Cool...just did a little day off noodling on GAIA, as I've been playing with that application on my iPhone, and it seems pretty cool and user friendly.

Also, here's a link to a lot more info on GAIA than you might need, but eat what you take and leave the rest:

https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/ask-me-about-gaia-gps.6959/

Then, I just found this cool little video! 

Great for guys like us (he has some gray in his beard, and s-p-e-a-k-s-s-l-o-w-l-y...lol)  ;D

https://youtu.be/dkL6MaWCAPA
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 26, 2018, 09:39:43 AM
                                                                   ^^^^^.... 8) .....^^^^^


             "Great for guys like us (he has some gray in his beard, and s-p-e-a-k-s-s-l-o-w-l-y...lol)  ;D"
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: JFanaselle on April 26, 2018, 12:56:28 PM
For some of the guys who use them (Joe, Steve, Jordan, anyone else with qualified experience???) could you please post up some pics of your mounts/locations? 

Check out post #25 of this thread: http://www.thenewx.org/forum/13-interior/240490-tablet-mount-options-3.html

My setup is extremely simple. One RAM ball on the dash, a RAM short arm, the RAM "tab tite" holder, and another 1" ball on the back of the tab tite (part numbers are all in the post I linked to). I spent about $50, and it's incredibly solid, even on bumpy washboard roads. The bonus is that I also installed a second 1" ball in my commuter car and move the tablet back and forth between the two vehicles (the tablet has Verizon cell service, so I use it to show me traffic to and from work).

I'm not an apple guy, so I can't really comment on the use of the iPad air. I'm not even sure what size that is, but I'd recommend a 7" to 8" screen size instead of the larger 10" style tablets.

Edit: If you're looking for a good location to mount a RAM ball as a starting point to the whole project, check out Pro Clip (www.proclipusa.com). They specialize in manufacturing plastic parts to attach inside almost any vehicle and provide a mounting surface for phones, tablets, handheld radios, microphone clips, etc. They tout a "two part solution" which consists of a mount for your specific vehicle, and a holder for your specific component (phone, etc) that attaches to the mount. If you're going with a RAM setup, you'd only need the vehicle specific mount.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 26, 2018, 02:03:08 PM
I really appreciate all this info you guys are putting out for this thread. I really liked that Gaia system Ghost made mention of in the video. I thought the different mapping screens and abilities to easily plot a route would come in handy. It would be fun to put together some form of a map book of all of the places I travel to and the different off road routes I've gone on. So correct me if I'm wrong please but if I was to get a tablet that is GPS enabled with lots of storage I could download a service like Gaia and with a mount of my choice be in business? Are there any pitfalls to a system like this? It seems pretty straightforward and simple to me and I like simple.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: RikRong on April 26, 2018, 03:54:19 PM
I'm a little late to the party, but this is more in response to John's question about mounting, so here's a picture of where I mount my Garmin handheld.  It is small, so it's probably not the best for navigating while driving.  However, I like some redundancy if I'm truly out in the boonies and I don't want to rely on a mobile device for navigation.  Yes, I love my devices and my social media, but this handheld goes with me whenever I'm out in sticks.  It has the capability to download information and upload maps and trails.  There is also a slot for an SD card.  After reading this thread, though, I really like the GPS units that Steve posted.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180426/7bfa0f753a29117d1a0ed56a2558ad52.jpg)
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: FrankB on April 26, 2018, 04:56:00 PM
Great post Celt...as these are some of the very questions running through my head recently with respect to an in-cab tablet mounted GPS capable unit.

For some of the guys who use them (Joe, Steve, Jordan, anyone else with qualified experience???) could you please post up some pics of your mounts/locations? 

I've been conducting a little Schmoogle research on RAM mounts, so pretty familiar there, but after meeting with Frank B. and seeing his dash mounted cell phone holder and his success....curious about more info on the topic.

Also wanted to mention, seeing (and hearing) Joe's nav success while crossing some very remote/no cell territory, left my paper map mind reeling.

Consider this Erik, and I totally get the map/compass/sun dial apocalypse back up plan...buuuut, you never have to fold that g**damn thing back up to fit into your door pocket!

Note:  I currently have an older (2015) iPad Air 32GB that I am considering as the base unit for this application...thoughts?

John - that RAM mount is actually for a Garmin GPSMap 64ST, which is a hand-held GPS unit designed primarily for hiking.  I have loaded Garmin's City Navigator maps on it, so it can now do turn-by-turn direction.  It is not easy to use for that however, since typing stuff in without a touchscreen is tedious at best.  I like it because it has a barometric altimeter and topo maps loaded also, but all that said, I don't geocache and I don't use devices like this when out hiking.  Like Erik, I like a paper map.   I also have the in-dash Nissan navigation system, but it sucks because it won't let you type stuff in while the vehicle is in Drive.   

The Garmin is really just something to play around with.   On the turn-by-turn, for example, it only beeps at you when it is time to do something, so if I want a pleasant female voice to tell me to "turn right in 50 feet" or "you missed the turn dumb-ass, now make a U-turn" I have to be sure that Heather is with me to read the instructions out to me.  Also, unlike with a unit designed specifically for driving (the rectangular ones with the touchscreens) you can't search for points of interest that are outside of your immediate area.


Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on April 26, 2018, 05:30:25 PM
Thanks Frank & Rick...I appreciate the info.

I've been looking at some of the RAM mounts, tablet info, and playing around with the GAIA app on my iPhone today.

The only issue I see with my iPad is...only 32GB, and in the layering/GPS map game, not much to store a lot of info.  Although, having the GAIA subscription, there is cloud storage so it isn't device centric.

Erik...one other solution to your GPS receiver dilemma with a non-GPS tablet...Garmin makes a nice blue tooth (wireless) receiver that makes accuracy and signals less worrisome, especially with no cell or wifi signals.

Garmin GLO:  https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Portable-GLONASS-Receiver-Vehicle/dp/B00AYAZENY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1524788825&sr=8-3&keywords=garmin+bluetooth+gps+receiver

Just noodling about town today I was able to track and record a quick trip, store it in a file created quickly on my iPhone, which now appears on my map with touch access to info for that specific route.

I also looked up some of the 128GB tablets for sale...not cheap.  Most were north of $500, but I like the ability to use it for more than just a GPS in car piece of gear.

I will probably get some RAM ball mounts and set up the iPad for now in the truck, and go with the Garmin GLO as my iPad is wifi only.  Also giving serious consideration to a $30 a year GAIA subscription.

Good stuff all...thank you for the input.  :)
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: JFanaselle on April 26, 2018, 05:37:29 PM
Thanks Frank & Rick...I appreciate the info.

What am I, chopped liver? Or did you just miss my reply?  :P
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on April 26, 2018, 05:40:49 PM
What am I, chopped liver? Or did you just miss my reply?  :P

Doh...sorry man...thank you sir! 

I actually looked up the ProClip mounts, but my ham radio already took up that real estate on the passenger side footwell...but your RAM mount info was spot on with the hard mounts for 1" balls...heh heh.  8)

Then I squirreled onto this YouTube video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZjNYsk4by8

Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on April 26, 2018, 05:42:51 PM
Oh...and Erik...if you enjoy music while traveling, you should seriously check out Spotify.  Highly addictive, and easy to create/store a huge volume of music that works outside of cell service as well.  :) :)
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: knightrider on April 26, 2018, 06:33:08 PM
I have some hands on with the Magellan trx7 and honestly I was not impressed, kinda clunky interface and not alot of info other than what you/the community creates and the terrain following in navigation mode is very twitchy(it follows the topo map terrain even if it's not accurate, like on the freeway.)  I think the trx7 is more suited to the SxS crowd as its IP67 rated .
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: RikRong on April 26, 2018, 07:50:34 PM
John, I don't want to quote your entire post, but are you set strictly on an iPad? May I suggest an inexpensive Android with a micro SD slot? You can get a decent Android tablet in the mid $100s and plug a large capacity SD into it.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Celt on April 27, 2018, 08:10:32 AM
Great info in this thread to help me make a decision so thank you everyone who gave some input. Some of the better takeaways from the thread I listed below:

 "you missed the turn dumb-ass, now make a U-turn"

"What am I, chopped liver? Or did you just miss my reply?"

 You guys are the source of many a laugh on my end, thanks!
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Syberia on June 01, 2018, 01:56:51 PM
I use an Android phone with Copilot GPS.  Stores the maps offline so no signal needed, and so far it has had all the random dirt roads/trails I've gone on in the Mojave and Anza Borrego.  If I input the GPS coordinates of somewhere I've found on Google Earth, it gets me there without a problem, even well off the paved road.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: SCUBA_Dale on October 01, 2018, 11:22:31 PM
Just reading this post....Not sure if you made a move yet.  I use an app on Android called LocusMaps, and purchased a trail map system from California Trail Maps.  It has been extremely accurate for me so far, with trails all around central and southern California.  I have the maps already, and would be happy to share them with you.

You can pick up a cheap tablet pretty much anywhere and load these maps up on it, and mount it in your X.  The maps work offline, so you wouldn't need an internet connection.  A few nice additions are when you have internet, you can save your files in the cloud in case of loss of data.  Also, if you record a trip, you can share it with others who are using the same or similar programs, so others can drive the same route you did, making it much easier and convenient if you have never been on that route before.  I've recorded TMR and Cerro Gordo for example, and would feel extremely confident on its accuracy to navigate the trail on my own.

Lots of options out there, just another one in the tool belt.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Jayrat on October 02, 2018, 06:56:17 AM
Check out post #25 of this thread: http://www.thenewx.org/forum/13-interior/240490-tablet-mount-options-3.html

LOL  lol
he can't go on TNX , he'll be arrested
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on October 02, 2018, 08:21:57 AM
John, I don't want to quote your entire post, but are you set strictly on an iPad? May I suggest an inexpensive Android with a micro SD slot? You can get a decent Android tablet in the mid $100s and plug a large capacity SD into it.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

I'm not Rick, and I would prefer the Android/Samsung tablet with the expandable micro SD.  They are currently on sale at Costco for $159.  So tempted...
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: RikRong on October 02, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
I'm not Rick, and I would prefer the Android/Samsung tablet with the expandable micro SD.  They are currently on sale at Costco for $159.  So tempted...
Do etttt.  lol
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on March 11, 2019, 08:42:12 AM
Update:

I purchased a Samsung Tab A 10" tablet ($180 @ Costco), two 64GB micro SD cards ($24 @ Costco) a RAM cup holder/ball mounted tablet piece thingy ($79 at Fry's Electronics online), and a 5 year subscription to GAIA ($159).

So all in, about $450.  Over budget, yes, but very happy with the performance and value of all the products purchased.

The ability to utilize all of the map layers in GAIA pushed me over the budget edge...being able to quickly render a NatGeo or USFS maps quickly in the field has proven to be **awesome**

I have been surprised with the **out of the box** ease of use of the GAIA application, and it's **snap to** ability to track point A to point B for route planning is really cool.

I didn't think the RAM cup holder mount would be a solid platform...buuuut, it has proven to be very sturdy over miles of Arizona washboard on a recent 100 mile loop excursion.

Overall very please with the set up...thanks again Joe (chopped liv-ah), Rick, Erik, et al
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Jayrat on March 11, 2019, 09:21:00 AM
Update:

I purchased a Samsung Tab A 10" tablet ($180 @ Costco), two 64GB micro SD cards ($24 @ Costco) a RAM cup holder/ball mounted tablet piece thingy ($79 at Fry's Electronics online), and a 5 year subscription to GAIA ($159).
Just bought the 8" yesterday going to work with it today
I'm excited about the GAIA maps even more now
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: x4dblduty on May 10, 2019, 10:38:12 AM
Cool...just did a little day off noodling on GAIA, as I've been playing with that application on my iPhone, and it seems pretty cool and user friendly.

Also, here's a link to a lot more info on GAIA than you might need, but eat what you take and leave the rest:

https://www.overlandbound.com/forums/threads/ask-me-about-gaia-gps.6959/

Then, I just found this cool little video! 

Great for guys like us (he has some gray in his beard, and s-p-e-a-k-s-s-l-o-w-l-y...lol)  ;D

https://youtu.be/dkL6MaWCAPA

Been using this with my iPad mini, and recently in Sedona, I like it! Simple enough. Just ensure it's synched to your GPS device if not GPS enabled. I have the basic subscription, downloaded maps I needed in the area.
Title: Re: Navigation info request
Post by: Ghost65 on May 10, 2019, 11:30:27 AM
Been using this with my iPad mini, and recently in Sedona, I like it! Simple enough. Just ensure it's synched to your GPS device if not GPS enabled. I have the basic subscription, downloaded maps I needed in the area.

Excellent, you are going to enjoy using it!  We certainly do.