Southern California Club Xterra

Southern California Club Xterra => SCCX General Discussion => Adopt A Trail => Topic started by: Celt on October 27, 2018, 10:59:45 AM

Title: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on October 27, 2018, 10:59:45 AM
  I wanted to address everyone and let them know I wish to step down from running the AAT here. I would like to ask if anyone is willing to take on this project? My work description has drastically changed and I now manage over 100 people in various activities and have to record hours and projects and typical management/desk weenie duties. That being said, it's extremely rewarding but when I come home I'm beat from tracking stats and filling out forms and documents. I'm still going to be active with the club/not-a-club and will still lead runs like the Winter Mojave but I'm trying to make some adjustments to simplify my life and be responsive to my families needs.

  If anyone is willing to step up and take lead on this please let me know. I'll discuss everything that's needed and projects that can be initiated. Thanks for your support in this over the last couple of years but it's time to give up the hat.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: RBduffer on October 27, 2018, 06:30:43 PM
Thanks Erik, for all the time and effort that you have put into this fairly thankless job.

If some 'new blood' want's to get more involved, this is a great opportunity to support our local trails in Big Bear.

If not, no worries, we will give it back to SBFS and they will let another club take over the honors.  It's a great trail.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Jayrat on October 28, 2018, 07:45:44 AM
Might as well give the trail up ,
getting this group together for a clean up, is like herding cats
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: 0317 on October 28, 2018, 10:06:28 AM
I thought EJsarus was taking over AAT responsibilities
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on October 28, 2018, 10:38:08 AM
I thought EJsarus was taking over AAT responsibilities

  He was helping out by attending meetings and so forth but he might be moving out of state.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Jayrat on October 28, 2018, 12:12:53 PM
He just sold his X
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: RikRong on October 28, 2018, 08:59:02 PM
If I was going to be here permanently, I'd love to take over, but someone who's a SoCal local definitely needs to take it.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: 0317 on October 28, 2018, 09:01:35 PM
is the meeting on the 3rd Wednesday of every month from 7-9?
always at the Sizzler in Corona?
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: knightrider on October 29, 2018, 09:24:24 AM
we need someone that can commit to going to the meetings and setting up atleast quarterly cleanups.  I think if these 2 conditions can not be met we may need to drop the trail so that another group can take the trail over. 

Just my feelings.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on October 29, 2018, 03:16:32 PM
is the meeting on the 3rd Wednesday of every month from 7-9?
always at the Sizzler in Corona?

  Yes....
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on October 29, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
we need someone that can commit to going to the meetings and setting up atleast quarterly cleanups.  I think if these 2 conditions can not be met we may need to drop the trail so that another group can take the trail over. 

Just my feelings.

 I think you are right. Part of the problem is getting people together to do this. I know everyone is busy with work schedules/family etc. but it's sure difficult enough to get trail cleanups organized and have follow through. That shooting spot requires a lot of attention as well. I bet you could send out a cleaning crew twice a month and it would still be a mess.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on October 29, 2018, 03:52:45 PM
I think you are right. Part of the problem is getting people together to do this. I know everyone is busy with work schedules/family etc. but it's sure difficult enough to get trail cleanups organized and have follow through. That shooting spot requires a lot of attention as well. I bet you could send out a cleaning crew twice a month and it would still be a mess.

All of this...and also what Jordan stated.

Biggest challenge has always been maintaining an AAT that is 3+ hours away, and finding an individual that doesn't have family/work obligations.

Reluctantly...I agree. 

The time may have come to let good ole 2N02 pass to another group.

Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: ultrapc40 on October 29, 2018, 09:08:17 PM
With another little one on the way (March) it will be hard for me to commit to going up once every quarter. If we do give it up, I think we should go up and give it one good cleaning as a club before we hand it off.

Eric does this new role mean you have sat and sun off :)
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: knightrider on October 30, 2018, 10:57:26 AM
not everyone would have to commit to going every quarter, but the idea being that if we schedule regular quarterly cleanups that people can try to make one a year. 

for example, we do the cleanup the 2nd saturday of Jan, April, July and Oct.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on October 30, 2018, 11:29:02 AM
not everyone would have to commit to going every quarter, but the idea being that if we schedule regular quarterly cleanups that people can try to make one a year. 

for example, we do the cleanup the 2nd saturday of Jan, April, July and Oct.

Just stating facts...this has not worked since we adopted this trail in 2013.

We have had 5 volunteer coordinators (myself, Terry, Clint, Erik, Edwin) in five years.

I ask the group...what will change to prioritize AAT now?
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on October 30, 2018, 03:29:15 PM


Eric does this new role mean you have sat and sun off :)

 Yes it does, miracles do happen...
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Jayrat on October 30, 2018, 09:13:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pbBxcxEy8s
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 01, 2018, 08:53:12 AM

Now the important part.
There has been a lack of activity from us. Per Greg, since we do represent one of the longest trails in the SBNF service road, but also have one of the most active areas for outdoor shooting ranges. Its very important to ensure cleanliness & constant monitoring at our trail due to the shooting range. These spots can get chaotic in some point as many shooters may go under the influence. Due to that, its becoming a high traffic area. It was brought as well to my attention that we were marked to drop the trail due to no activity. I did ensure to him that I will get the community back up and running. He brought up Terry ( i have no idea who that is), im assuming a former or inactive SCCX member. I will be in the planning for a 2NO2 survey late July so keep an eye out for that.


This was from the AAT meeting in June, of 2018.  I'm leaving for Arizona in less than two weeks, and would like to either wrap up the AAT program, or find someone who is going to make an effort here.

You all know my opinion on this:  the time has come to pass the trail to a group that can further maintain the busy off road/shooting areas along 2N02.  No shame in admitting that we are all too busy, life happens.

But...there is shame in trying to hobble along, attending sporadic meetings, even fewer people at clean ups, etc.  There haven't been posts from anyone here in "log your AAT hours" thread in TWO YEARS.

Also, Greg Hoffman is no longer involved with the AAT Program, per some secret suspension.  There is a new list of Forest Service contacts.

So I'll ask again, before I just contact the AAT folks and make the hard decision so this topic can be laid to rest:

Is there anyone here who wants to fully/seriously take this project on and move forward???

If not, I'll be reaching out to the AAT folks tomorrow.

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: RBduffer on November 01, 2018, 10:20:30 AM
Thanks John.  I agree with you 100%.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Jayrat on November 01, 2018, 10:40:30 AM


 There haven't been posts from anyone here in "log your AAT hours" thread in TWO YEARS.




I went up a few months ago, BeeDee was supposed to log my hours , then he dropped out and moved
I have made several attempts to get people up there , but nope
last time I was up there , I went with non SCCXers and we cleaned a lot

https://www.sccxterra.com/smf/index.php?topic=4746.0
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: RikRong on November 01, 2018, 11:23:05 AM
I haven't been involved nearly as long as most others on this forum, but I'd have to go with John on this.  Most of the "OG" members of the forum have become far more involved with life, making it very difficult to get a coordinated effort on the trail.  Some of the younger guys, Edwin, for example, have tried to step in and help, but he has also started to move on, with the possiblity of him not staying in Cali, either. 

The statement I'm going to say next might rub people the wrong way, but anyway...I feel like the younger/newer crowd doesn't really want to put the effort into the trail because they'd rather spend the time wheeling or they just think they're contributing to our cause, without really having any buy-in because they haven't been involved with SCCX for very long.  This is the feeling I got from our huge combined run with SCXF, some of the guys thought we were doing the run just to get them to help cleanup on our trail.  At no time was this mentioned by us, we just needed the hours everyone was on the trail, and we actually got very few people to give us hours, out of over 30 trucks. 

BLUF:  It's very hard for all of us to balance things now and it's really hard to get buy-in from the newer people on the forum.   
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: ultrapc40 on November 01, 2018, 01:25:06 PM
One way I see to make this work is to have “club/noncoub” quarterly camping trip set up on defined weekends once every quarter. Make it a Family event just to be outdoor. Think quarterly CANVAZ and part of the weekend will be for giving back (aka trail clean up)
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 01, 2018, 02:07:56 PM
One way I see to make this work is to have “club/noncoub” quarterly camping trip set up on defined weekends once every quarter. Make it a Family event just to be outdoor. Think quarterly CANVAZ and part of the weekend will be for giving back (aka trail clean up)

I appreciate the thought Spencer...but honestly, and reflecting everyone else's thoughts above...it's time to let 2N02 go.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 01, 2018, 02:18:57 PM
Email sent to the AAT folks.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: G.B.H. on November 01, 2018, 02:52:42 PM
As a newer member but certainly not younger I figure I will chime in. This is not my first club I have joined in my life so I have seen this before. Not my first club I have joined that has been around for awhile either. Usually they start like wildfire. Everyone is involved and activities happen all the time. Over time the number of members dwindle a little and the activities slow down a bit until it becomes a core group of friends doing the events they like the best.
I've been a member of SCCX for probably a year now. I've gone on one ride/outing, though I am off every other weekend and available for more than half of those. I've only seen one posting for a trail cleanup (I volunteered but it didn't happen) I knew the club had a trail but really didn't know where or what it was until that posting.
I guess what I am saying is the club is obviously at a bit of a lull. That happens. Nothing to feel bad about it is natural. People have lives and move away etc. and it takes a particular strong personality for a newbie to step in and not step on the toes of the senior members to organize things like trail cleanups.
I think it would be wise to give up the trail.
Give it some time. Hopefully, in the near future, SCCX will be able to adopt a new trail and maintain it well.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: LBX on November 01, 2018, 04:03:09 PM
I went up a few months ago, BeeDee was supposed to log my hours , then he dropped out and moved
I have made several attempts to get people up there , but nope
last time I was up there , I went with non SCCXers and we cleaned a lot

https://www.sccxterra.com/smf/index.php?topic=4746.0

I was suppose to log your hours? And then I moved? I don't recall claiming either of those things.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Jayrat on November 01, 2018, 08:28:49 PM
I was suppose to log your hours? And then I moved? I don't recall claiming either of those things.
Yes you are right, I am mistaken you are not the person
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 02, 2018, 09:01:33 AM
As a newer member but certainly not younger I figure I will chime in. This is not my first club I have joined in my life so I have seen this before. Not my first club I have joined that has been around for awhile either. Usually they start like wildfire. Everyone is involved and activities happen all the time. Over time the number of members dwindle a little and the activities slow down a bit until it becomes a core group of friends doing the events they like the best.
I've been a member of SCCX for probably a year now. I've gone on one ride/outing, though I am off every other weekend and available for more than half of those. I've only seen one posting for a trail cleanup (I volunteered but it didn't happen) I knew the club had a trail but really didn't know where or what it was until that posting.
I guess what I am saying is the club is obviously at a bit of a lull. That happens. Nothing to feel bad about it is natural. People have lives and move away etc. and it takes a particular strong personality for a newbie to step in and not step on the toes of the senior members to organize things like trail cleanups.
I think it would be wise to give up the trail.
Give it some time. Hopefully, in the near future, SCCX will be able to adopt a new trail and maintain it well.

Well said.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: JFanaselle on November 02, 2018, 11:41:27 AM
Maybe this is also the right time for the (harsh?) reminder that we are not really a club at all. We are simply a group of people who socialize via an online forum, and wheel/camp together sometimes. I know we toss around the "club/not a club" thing like a joke, but it's true that we are not an organized club with dues, rules/bylaws, or a membership committee that can hold people responsible for minimum requirements. Essentially, we are trying to manage an adopt a trail program as a club when we aren't a club at all. The responsibility falls entirely on whoever steps up to be the volunteer coordinator without any requirement for anyone else to help. It's like a single person stepping up to adopt the trail, and then hoping they can get their friends to help when the time comes.

Thanks John for being the voice of reason here. I know everyone wants to hold on to the program because it's a really cool thing, but it's not fair for us to claim that we maintain that trail when there are dozens of other groups chomping at the bit to become part of this adopt-a-trail program and could do a much better job than us.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: SCUBA_Dale on November 02, 2018, 02:07:15 PM
Agree with everything.  Maybe we could coordinate with whomever takes over the trail again attend cleanups with them, for those who want to help maintain it.  Admittedly, I haven't been proactive on cleanups.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: G.B.H. on November 02, 2018, 02:16:28 PM
You are correct. I did use the word "club" when I shouldn't have. I think because whatever SCcX is it had an adopted trail and I felt the C word appropriate (and it's also in the name ;)). Honestly, I like what it is. I'm not much of a club guy. It's a happy medium.
Also, If someone on here belongs to a real club and does have a trail to clean. I will be there if I can. One of the few things I do like and will participate in that real clubs do.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: JFanaselle on November 02, 2018, 02:45:40 PM
You are correct. I did use the word "club" when I shouldn't have. I think because whatever SCcX is it had an adopted trail and I felt the C word appropriate (and it's also in the name ;)). Honestly, I like what it is. I'm not much of a club guy. It's a happy medium.
Also, If someone on here belongs to a real club and does have a trail to clean. I will be there if I can. One of the few things I do like and will participate in that real clubs do.

Definitely wasn't ripping on you at all.... We do use the world club (and yes, it's right in the name). But the reality is that this isn't any more of a club than a social group that meets at the same bar after work. People come and go as they please, which is part of what makes this group so great.

I was simply making the point that being part of the Adopt A Trail program and being responsible for regular maintenance of a trail is really more for REAL clubs, not social groups like us.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on November 03, 2018, 01:35:13 PM
Definitely wasn't ripping on you at all.... We do use the world club (and yes, it's right in the name). But the reality is that this isn't any more of a club than a social group that meets at the same bar after work. People come and go as they please, which is part of what makes this group so great.

I was simply making the point that being part of the Adopt A Trail program and being responsible for regular maintenance of a trail is really more for REAL clubs, not social groups like us.

  Wait a minute here, Randy keeps tellin me I owe him 20 bucks a month for dues?????
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on November 04, 2018, 12:11:28 AM
But...there is shame in trying to hobble along, attending sporadic meetings, even fewer people at clean ups, etc.  There haven't been posts from anyone here in "log your AAT hours" thread in TWO YEARS.


 While I think it's time to let this trail go to another club, it's a bit of a misnomer about no hours logged hours for the past two years. Whenever anyone has gone to the trail, I have logged the hours. The AAT log hours was created by Joe to get an account of everything on this site. They do not accept me just reporting that format, it has to be a little different. What I had to do was transpose those into a more detailed spreadsheet including peoples names, addresses and signatures attesting to the hours. Then I sent that to the Park Service so the hours can be documented. There is a lot behind the scenes that isn't necessarily noted and simply logging them on our site does not transpose them to the Federal accountability hours. I appreciate everyone's help with this and it's admirable with what we were trying to accomplish. In the end I truly do wish we could have accomplished more with this project but have no regrets with the help that was given and all the hours donated over the years by everyone.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 04, 2018, 09:30:19 AM
While I think it's time to let this trail go to another club, it's a bit of a misnomer about no hours logged hours for the past two years. Whenever anyone has gone to the trail, I have logged the hours. The AAT log hours was created by Joe to get an account of everything on this site. They do not accept me just reporting that format, it has to be a little different. What I had to do was transpose those into a more detailed spreadsheet including peoples names, addresses and signatures attesting to the hours. Then I sent that to the Park Service so the hours can be documented. There is a lot behind the scenes that isn't necessarily noted and simply logging them on our site does not transpose them to the Federal accountability hours. I appreciate everyone's help with this and it's admirable with what we were trying to accomplish. In the end I truly do wish we could have accomplished more with this project but have no regrets with the help that was given and all the hours donated over the years by everyone.

No misnomers, there haven't been any posts in those threads for two years. 

Which begs the question...as the SCCX AAT coordinator...why weren't you posting the hours there if you were logging them federally?  ;) ;)

My comments were not about discounting or critiquing anyone's efforts...more about the collective apathy of the "club/not a club" which Joe pretty much summed up in his post. 

It has always been a tough load to shoulder for one person...again, as Joe pointed out.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on November 04, 2018, 09:44:57 AM
 I didn't post any of the hours the guys reported to me on that thread because they wouldn't have done anything other than let people here see them. I suppose in retrospect it may have not been a bad idea but it would have doubled the work and I would have had to ask for a raise.  The AAT program changed their reporting format right after Joe made that thread and I probably should have asked Joe to delete it for simplicity. Hopefully a big club can adopt 2N02 because that shooting spot alone is near a fulltime job. In looking at everything, I think the largest hurdle we had was the distance most of us had to travel to get up there and after putting in a day of clean up you really needed to have to camp somewhere to avoid a really long day and dangerous drive home.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 04, 2018, 09:55:46 AM
I didn't post any of the hours the guys reported to me on that thread because they wouldn't have done anything other than let people here see them. I suppose in retrospect it may have not been a bad idea but it would have doubled the work and I would have had to ask for a raise.  The AAT program changed their reporting format right after Joe made that thread and I probably should have asked Joe to delete it for simplicity.

No need to defend your actions my friend...those winky faces were indicative of my tongue in cheek remarks.

All good.  :) :)

(smilies added to let you know we are all good  :D :D)
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on November 04, 2018, 09:58:58 AM
No need to defend your actions my friend...those winky faces were indicative of my tongue in cheek remarks.

All good.  :) :)

(smilies added to let you know we are all good  :D :D)

  Oh gesh, don't worry about that. I wasn't taking any offense to any of it at all.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: SCUBA_Dale on November 05, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
  Oh gesh, don't worry about that. I wasn't taking any offense to any of it at all.
Eric after being offended by this post....
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Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Celt on November 05, 2018, 02:04:19 PM
Eric after being offended by this post....
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Hahahahaha, as we all know Im kinda delicate and meltdown pretty easy.
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Sage Bromax on November 06, 2018, 06:43:50 AM
Hahahahaha, as we all know Im kinda delicate and meltdown pretty easy.
Yes, you are such a snowflake!  LOL!
Title: Re: AAT Changes
Post by: Ghost65 on November 08, 2018, 08:37:05 AM
Gentlemen and Ladies...

We have officially been removed from the SBNF AAT Program.  Angie Cook and Greg Sequoia have been notified, and although the program is going through what has been described as a "transitory" phase, notice has been given and accepted.

Angie Cook thanked us for our many years of service, and wished us well.

On a personal note...thank you to everyone who participated in or contributed to our efforts during our tenure with the AAT Program.

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With special recognition to the AAT coordinators who unselfishly gave of their time and efforts...

Terry Lindgren, Clint Bussey, Edwin Avelar, and Erik Pollock.


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I think we can all hold our heads high in acknowledging that we left it better than we found it.


Chapter closed.