Topic: Battery advice - need help choosing between two

[JFanaselle]

Need some help from the battery/electrical experts (Jordan? Randy? Anyone?)...

Just over 2 years ago, I purchased an Odyssey Extreme AGM battery. At the time, the guy at the parts store told me the one that fit my rig is the 35-PC1400T (Group 35). The battery is now starting to act up on me (slow starts after a few days of sitting, voltage testing in the low 11v range after a few days of sitting), and I'm about to replace it. In searching for the same battery, I also stumbled upon the 34R-1500T (group 34) model, which seems to fit. The specs on the two batteries are very similar, and the prices are within $10 or $11 bucks of each other. The group 34 model seems to have more cold cranking amps (880 vs 850 on the group 35), and the reserve capacity minutes is slightly higher (135 minutes vs. 125 minutes on the group 35). The group 34 is actually the slightly cheaper battery, and I just want to make sure I'm not doing something stupid before I buy it. Anyone have any experience installing a group 34? There is some feedback on TNX that it's shorter (about an inch), and requires a spacer under it in order for the OEM battery clamp to work. I'm ok with this, just need to make sure the battery will work, and is in-fact better than the group 35 I already have in there.

Here's a link to the two batteries: https://www.4wheelparts.com/Batteries.aspx?t_c=6&t_s=12&t_pt=4219

[RBduffer]

Let me start by saying that I don't know anything about Optima batteries. 
But for that kind of $$$ it should last at least 4 or 5 years.  Either you got a bum battery. or there is something wrong with your charging/regulation system.  I hope that they at least pro rate it.  As far as the spec differences go, they seem too close to worry about.  Any decent battery should crank our rigs.  If you are running a fridge or such while parked then more amp hours is what you are looking for.  BTW are you using solar to maintain your battery?

[knightrider]

You should be in the warranty period for a replacement, that said odyssey batteries need some maintenance to live a long life. 

They need to be charged at a higher voltage(14.8v) with high amperage (20a+) bulk with a 13.7v float charge which most vehicles won't do.  The nissan smart charging system will put out around 14.2v when the battery is low and 13.2v(the voltages can vary depending on the age of your alternator) when the battery is topped off but this is not enough to truly fully charge an odyssey. 

Odyssey has lots of published info regarding charging their batteries properly and have also done tests with different charge voltages, 14.2v vs 14.8v charging was 50 cycles vs 300 cycles until total capacity was down to 80%
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-002_1214.pdf

Finding a charger to top off the battery is a bit of a chore as you also can't go over 15v or you risk offgassing and that will reduce the capacity.  Having solar with a programmable controller is nice so you can charge the battery with the higher voltage while out camping.

I had a charger that was specifically marketed for the Sears diehard platinum batteries (odyssey made diehard platinum for Sears before they recently switched to Northstar) and i believe it was partially the reason why my Diehard Platinum 100ah 31m now has 11ah of capacity after 4 years.
I am also partially my fault for deep discharging it but i always charged it with my expensive ass charger without realizing it regularly would go into equalization mode and get up to 16v when in the Diehard platinum automatic charge mode, silly me for trusting them to properly design a charger to match the expensive battery.

I have since switched to North star batteries which have the great thin plate technology(offers higher capacity along with high amp draw for starting) of the odyssey but  don't have as strict charging rules, they still require a higher 14.4v for optimal charging and don't require the high amperage rate.  Batteries Plus has a store brand that is made by Northstar, additionally they offer a better warranty than Northstar as well (60 vs 48)
https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/nsb-agm-27f?p=51233
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sli27fagmdp

I also bought a new charger that has the proper voltage to charge my Northstar battery as well as a high voltage mode for odyssey batteries.  It doesn't have quite the amps I wanted but it gets the job done, just takes longer.

The 27F group Northstar/BatteriesPlus is a direct fit for the xterra with the terminals on the correct side, no modification to the battery terminals and has more capacity that the 35 or 34 group batteries.

[Celt]

 All of this is great info to digest with the different types of batteries that everyone is running. I didn't realize that about Odyssey and it seems like it may be somewhat of a pain to keep them running properly. With all of this information you guys put out got me wondering. Would it solve many of these issues to just get a high output alternator to solve the higher amp debt many of these batteries seem to need especially with all the extras some of us run? Right now I run a mixture in my vehicles from Interstate AGM to Optima's and have had no issues with either brand but maybe I'm just getting lucky.

[Ghost65]

That's a lot of numbers and hours...

I used these folks, as all they sell/produce/recycle are batteries: 

American Battery Supply Escondido

When I discussed with them what I do (winch (hardly ever), fridge, off road lights) they (along with texting Jordan) were able to get me pointed in the right direction, which was a nice AGM style batt. 

My new battery did require a fabbed shim on the top plate to fit correctly (new one was smaller), but it came with an expected life of 6-8 years and a 4 year full replacement warranty.  They also installed my new battery and recycled the old one in about 30 minutes.  They also ran a diagnostic of my alternator/charging system for peace of mind.

[JFanaselle]

Thanks for all the input guys. Jordan - that's some great info about the charging/maintenance. Talk about a PITA, but that's likely what caused this thing to die so soon. To be fair, it's not "dead," but I'm pretty sure it's getting there, and I don't want to risk it going out on me during a trip. We're getting into colder weather soon, which is when these kinds of problems like to rear their ugly heads at the worst possible times. I don't have a load tester, but I did a simple voltage test. If you guys remember, I'm actually running two batteries. The Odyssey under the hood is my primary/starting battery, and I have an Optima Yellow Top under the driver seat that acts as an aux battery (it is isolated from the main circuit of the vehicle when the ignition is off). With the rig only having sat for about 10 hours (after a good bit of driving), the Odyssey was only testing at 11.3 volts, and the Optima was testing at 12.6 volts. Seems that the Optima is fine, but the Odyssey isn't. If I let the truck sit for 3 or 4 days, it turns over really slowly. I haven't tested the Odyssey's voltage in that condition yet, but I'd guess it's down into the high 10V range if it's turning over that slowly. To be fair, my alternator is also 7 years old now, and is likely strained from charging two batteries all the time. I'm probably in the market for a replacement in that department, too.

I called 4 Wheel Parts and was told the Odyssey battery only had a 1 year warranty (they looked up my receipt I bought it just over 2 years ago), but I found the same 48 month info online that you guys are saying. Maybe that's just how long they take care of it in store, and I should call Odyssey directly. If they'll replace it for free or even prorate it, I guess I'll just go with another one. If not, I think I'll swing by my local Batteries + and pick up the 27F that knightrider is running.

Edit: I found this info on Odyssey's own warranty card. With this kind of verbiage, I can bet any kind of warranty replacement is going to be a pain, especially if 4 wheel parts isn't going to work with me on it. I should probably just anticipate buying something new.

Overcharging, undercharging, charging or installing in reverse polarity, improper maintenance, allowing the Battery to be deeply
discharged via a parasitic load or mishandling of the Battery such as but not limited to using the terminals for lifting or carrying the
Battery. Trickle chargers that do not have a regulated trickle charge voltage between 13.5V and 13.8V (no lower than 13.5V and no
higher than 13.8V) will cause early failure of the Battery. Use of such chargers with the Battery will also void the Battery’s warranty.
For applications where an alternator is present, the alternator must deliver between 14.0V and 14.7V when measured at the
Battery’s terminals. Consult the ODYSSEY battery technical manual or owner’s manual for any necessary temperature
compensation. Alternators that do not have a regulated charge between 14.0V and 14.7V (no lower than 14.0V and no higher than
14.7V) will cause early failure of the Battery. Use of such alternators with the Battery will also void the Battery’s warranty.

[RBduffer]

IMHO, If they don't give you at least 50% credit on a new battery, I would go with Jordan's battery. 
Either way, I would get your charging/regulation system checked out first.  No sense replacing an alternator if your regulator or battery is the issue, and vice versa.  And you're right, the cold will make things worse.   Good luck

[JFanaselle]

Thanks again for the input guys. With one battery charging to 12.8 volts, and the other only charging to 11.3 volts, I'm pretty confident the one battery (the odyssey) is bad. Even if they offered me 50% of the price toward a replacement, I'm a bit turned off by the lack of performance from this battery. I bought the Odyssey thinking Odyssey was the best, and didn't realize they were as temperamental and sensitive as a pregnant woman in her 3rd trimester. That alone makes me not want to spend more money on another Odyssey, so I forked over the dough for the Northstar knockoff (the one Jordan recommended) today. Batteries Plus is even running a sale on their website right now - save 10% if you buy online and pick up in store. I'll be stopping at the one in Temecula on my way home to pick it up.

I do still want to have the alternator tested to make sure I'm charging at optimal voltage. I'm sure 7 years of water crossings and mud/dust/dirt have taken a toll on my OEM alternator. Is there an easy way to test these, or does it require some kind of fancy auto store tools like doing a load test on the battery?

[Celt]

Check the voltage readings on your new battery and run it around town or to work. When you get home take a reading and that will quickly tell you if it's charging. Your results may vary once you hit the dirt and are running all of your accessories which may be one of the areas that lead to issues if the charging system isn't working properly. If you have about 9 minutes of time I tossed down a link that you can also use.




  Hope it helps...

[RBduffer]

Good call on the new battery Joe.
Great video Erik, easy peezy.

[RikRong]

I'm opening this topic back up...

I'm looking at maintaining the charge on my Odyssey battery.  I don't deep discharge, but after reading this thread and many "over there", I've come to the conclusion that I need to throw a charger on this thing every so often, as the Xterra's charging system is only capable of about an 80% charge.  I've made up my mind on a charger that's on the Odyssey approved list.  My question is this:  how often should I plug it in?  Once a month? Once a week? Check with a multi-meter and only charge if it's below 14?  Thanks for the help.  I wish I had done slightly more research prior to buying my Odyssey.

[knightrider]

I try to top mine off once a month and after trips that I don't use the solar panels. 

which charger did you go with?

[RikRong]

I try to top mine off once a month and after trips that I don't use the solar panels. 

which charger did you go with?

Okay, that's what I was thinking.

As for the charger, I was looking at the Powermania Turbo M212E. However, I think I'm just going to stick with the Odyssey one because the Powermania charger doesn't have clips. Do you have a suggestion for a better option? I'm open to any suggestions.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

[Celt]

 It's funny this thread came back up when it did as my Interstate is going on the fritz. I have been very happy with them and Optima, just not sure which direction I want to go this time around. Odyssey sounds nice but having to top them off from time to time isn't something I want to have to remember to do and I don't have a high output alternator. The issue with Optima is they don't fit really good in our stock configuration battery tray. If the retention arm comes loose they can get a hole rubbed in them (From experience) which isn't good. Other than that they have performed well for me and I run them in tandem in my Rubicon. The Xterra I want to stick with a single battery setup as it's just too much of a PITA to build a dual system and I don't really believe I need it. The Interstate fits good in the battery tray and seems to perform well with winching, external lighting and continual fridge draw. If I'm in a spot longer than a day or I think the fridge is going to use a lot of draw because of heat I hook up the solar panel.

[JFanaselle]

Celt - go with the one I bought from Batteries Plus - the same one knight rider recommended. It's freaking awesome for the price, and has a much larger capacity than the stock size. Drops right in, no modifications necessary, and the battery terminals fit with no modifications too. Plus, a 60 month warranty at all Batteries Plus locations nationwide. You really can't go wrong.

knight rider - are you saying that you still top off your Northstar knock-off? I figured I didn't need to do that now that I stepped away from Odyssey. Maybe I should be looking at investing in a charger too.